 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Geirskogul
Date: 2009-01-22 06:08
I've been playing an older Selmer USA bass clarinet, and I'm having a great time (well, once I got a neck strap, that is) but I'm having some problems. Note that it goes down to only to Eb and has an automated double-register system.
First problem is that I can't play above top-line F. Actually, I can if I slur it (and go even higher) but if I articulate the notes I get high-pitched squeaking. It seems to get better if I squeeze the two LH index-finger key pads down (the ones above the neutral position; it's late and I don't want to think :P ) but it could be just my imagination.
Second problem is angle. I can play it, but I end up swinging the bell to my rear chair leg (folding chair) to my right to get a good angle on the MP. It's even better when I'm standing with the neckstrap, but then playing some notes gets awkward (as in, the clarinet doesn't hold itself up, y'know) and condensation runs down the front of the clarinet and out of the top toneholes. It's got an older neck with the almost-90-degree angle on it, and I was wondering if dropping $70 for the vito angled neck would help (if it would even work) as seen here:
http://www.wwbw.com/Vito-Bass-Clarinet-Neck-i115729.music
The vito neck certainly LOOKS much more angled (and I've found pictures on that auction site from the side that confirm my suspicions) but I'm concerned the tenon wouldn't fit. Angling my old brass neck is out-of-the question, as I've already taken it to a metalworker and he says it's been annealed and work-hardened too many times already (it does kind of look funky). He didn't have any luck with it either. I think getting a steeper-angled neck looks to be the solution, because I can almost play it straight up in front of me, but the notes get airy and start squeaking on the very low ones (AKA - the fun ones everyone wants you to play).
Third, final "problem" is that I can't find any repair shops in my area. I'm currently in northern Idaho, and unless I want to go to Seattle (6 hrs, 5 hrs at my driving speed >:P ) or Spokane (2 hrs my speed) I seem to be out of luck. I need to repad some or all of the instrument, as some of the pads are ancient and look questionable. I'd be cool with repadding it myself, as I've done to all three of my Bb Soprano clarinets, but adjusting it looks just a skosh out of my league, if you get my drift.
I'd even repad it myself if I could find some pads and have someone adjust it, or just get it adjusted, but I don't know of anyone in the area. That being said, if you know of anyone in the Spokane/Coeur d'Alene/Seattle area, I'd be willing to make the trip with your recommendations. Or if you know of a good mail-in place, but mailing the thing would cost just as much as gas and time with prices below $3.00 a gallon and 35mpg.
If you guys have any input, I'd greatly appreciate it. **BONUS THOUGHT** switching back to soprano clarinet right after bass makes the soprano feel like a toy, but much easier to play with more breath support
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-01-22 06:29
>> and has an automated double-register system. <<
Is that actually a unique Bundy which has two register keys? Or is this the normal Bundy? It has an automatic mechanism for a seperate Bb tone hole, but actually only has one register key for the clarion.
>> I can't play above top-line F. Actually, I can if I slur it (and go even higher) but if I articulate the notes I get high-pitched squeaking. <<
If there are any leaks (also depending wher ethey are, etc.) then the clarion register (especially some parts of it) is the the first area to create problems (compared with the low register, epsecially the upper half of it, which can still feel practically perfect). First you need to see if tehre are leaks and if tehre are any, make them go away
Still this area above clarion E, especially on some instruments (some Bundies and other similar models more than others) is a problem. If there are no leaks, check that you don't have a problem from your mouthpiece or reeds. Any reasonable mouthpiece should be ok, but occasionally there is an especially bad mouthpiece (unlikely but not impossible).
After solving all those problems (if you have them) then you "just" need to practice this problematic area which is more difficult than other registers. The way I learned is by playing legato to a "problem note" and then notice what I do, keep my mouth/air/etc. the same and try to start on that note. I think this is a good method. Others might have other ideas.
>> I was wondering if dropping $70 for the vito angled neck would help <<
I will ask this for you in the repairers' forum where several seem to work often on Bundies and Vitos. Do you know (approx) when your Bundy was made? Maybe that would help (or maybe it hasn't changed).
I'll also ask there abotu a repairer in your area, someone might know.
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Author: Geirskogul
Date: 2009-01-22 06:46
Attachment: 73ce_12.JPG (35k)
Attachment: 7245_12.JPG (40k)
Thank you for asking in the repairer's area. I guess it's a Bundy? It doesn't say Bundy anywhere on the clarinet/case/etc, but Selmer USA is synonymous? I guess I learned something new (not being sarcastic, I genuinely didn't know :P )
I guess you could say it has a seperate hole for Bb... If you hold any LH face keys down and hit the register key, it opens one, but if you let go of the keys (or just use the register key with the low clarion) you get the other. There's only one register key itself, and a large tonehole right above it, with a much smaller one at the very end of the instrument on the metal ring below the neck. Attached are two pictures from "that auction site" where I got the CL itself. I'd take more but I'm currently searching for drivers to my cellphone, DC, and webcam (just moved to Ubuntu and having some issues).
The clarinet itself doesn't have any serial numbers besides a hand-etched one for (I'm assuming) the school where it came from, as the "Serial Number" matches one on the case and starts with XQ lol
Should add that I play on Rico Royal 3's currently. I have a stash of Vandoren 2's and Rico Royal 2's, but playing on those actually seems harder. This is my first time on bass clarinet, but I maybe should say the mouthpiece is unlabeled, but feels more "open." I, as a standard, play on very closed mouthpieces for the soprano, because I like the sound.
Post Edited (2009-01-22 06:54)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-01-22 07:21
There are also replacement necks for 1430P basses, they also have the "improved" angle and should fit. Last price I got quoted was some $120.
FWIW I last played mine with a Behn Ouverture and Selmer Primo #2.5 reed.
--
Ben
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Author: Aprilyn
Date: 2009-01-23 02:25
I played a low C Selmar bass clarinet at my uni and an artley low Eb a band loaned to me and I have problems between G above the stave to C. I think Its because before bass I played a normal soprano clarinet and the embouchure is completely different in that part of the register on the bass. When I switch back to bass from playing a soprano for a while, I was only able to play those notes when I slur from a note I can play just like you.
I found the best way to get use to playing in this register is what clarnibass has suggested. I took note on how much air and how fast I blew, pressure and angle of my embochure... it took me a few weeks but a little bit of practice each day helped solve it
Using thicker reeds and a change of ligature helped me heaps too.
>>Second problem is angle. I can play it, but I end up swinging the bell to my rear chair leg (folding chair) to my right to get a good angle on the MP. It's even better when I'm standing with the neckstrap, but then playing some notes gets awkward (as in, the clarinet doesn't hold itself up, y'know)<<
Have you tried playing the bass with the stick set on different lengths for the angle issue or tried chairs with different heights? If nothing helps then buying a new neck might be the best thing. Does the bass have 2 rings to attach the neck strap? I marched with a bass clarinet once (never again!) and I had to use 2 neck straps (a shoulder and a neck strap) to hold it up while I played. the bottom one held it up and the top one stopped the clarinet from going forward. I'm sure there would be a neck strap with 2 hooks in one but I didn't have that.
Aprilyn
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Author: Geirskogul
Date: 2009-01-23 03:06
It's got two holes for straps I end up using the "neck" strap over my right shoulder, because it's more comfortable that way. I've tried different lengths with the peg, but everything is awkward to use. I know it's going to be more "horizontal" to the ground than a soprano clarinet, but I wasn't expecting it to be like a sax.
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Author: MichaelR
Date: 2009-01-23 03:49
His (her?) posting comes from Lewiston. That puts Boise about 275 miles away. Considering the roads it would almost be a wash to go to Portland.* Much closer contacts would be:
Dr. Roger Cole at the University of Idaho
http://www.class.uidaho.edu/music/facu.asp#rcole
Dr. Shannon Scott at Washington State University
http://libarts.wsu.edu/music/faculty_staff/sscott/
Or maybe pop up to Spokane.
* OK, I'm biased for Portland.
--
Michael of Portland, OR
Be Appropriate and Follow Your Curiosity
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Author: Geirskogul
Date: 2009-01-23 04:21
Eh driving to boise takes about 5 hours, seattle 5 hours, portland 5 hours (the roads are pretty much the same either way - Seattle's tbe best, then boise, then portland - I've driven all three many times). I'm willing to drive five-six hours to get the thing repadded in person, because it's cheaper than shipping a 44"x15"x8" box through UPS, and being face-to-face makes all the difference. Spokane is only two hours away, and I think going to the U of I is pretty unacceptable (I'm told the teachers, especially for music, have the "you're not in my class GO AWAY" mentality).
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Author: Geirskogul
Date: 2009-01-29 01:51
Update: I bent the neck myself (filled it with glass optical beads and sand to keep it from denting) and copper-plated over the burn marks. Pretty cool having a shiny "buffed copper" neck. I didn't think about this until mid-plate, two days in, but I was scared it would change the inner diameter of the neck. Thankfully no copper actually plated the inside, just the outside.
Still kinda want that Vito neck, though. It has a little more bend than even this modified one does.
Does anybody know where to get pads for this beast? I've become confident in reassembling the instrument after a thorough key-cleaning session, but I can't find where to get the pads. I've repadded many soprano clarinets (and a saxophone) so maybe this won't be so bad. I've had no luck finding a repair person, and can't get in contact with the U of I instructor.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2009-01-29 02:22
For years I've been using B32 tan leather bass clarinet pads from Ferree's Tools -- I highly recommend them.
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Author: Geirskogul
Date: 2009-01-29 03:07
How exactly does one order from that site? Do I need to go through and measure EVERY PAD on the thing, or are there "sets" that I can buy? It's kind of hard to navigate :(
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-01-29 04:59
Geirskogul, sorry to say I got no responses in the repair forum (unusual but it happens). Anyway...
Ferree's don't have online ordering, but you can call or fax your orders. You need their catalogue, which they now have online. It's a bit annoying to scroll through it (it's devided into several PDF files) and it's easier to get their paper catalogue (just call/email to ask and they will probably mail it to you). Their price list is seperate and is on their website.
But, I think they only sell pads a minimum of a dozen per size. This will probably be a huge waste for you (unless you don't mine). To get the exact size, you really should measure what you need. Even then, you might find out you actually need a 0.5mm bigger pad for many keys, etc.
I think they also sell pad sets. Bundy bass clarinets are pretty common in USA from what I see so they might have a pad set that would fit (ask them). That will save you the waste of dozen per size, but don't be especially surprised if some of the pads don't fit perfect.
Notice that some bass clarinets use relatively thin pads, around 3.0mm-3.2mm I would say, while others need much thicker pads, even as thick as saxophone pads (around 4.0mm). Some inbetween.
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Author: Geirskogul
Date: 2009-01-29 05:28
Thank you. After I replied I saw their online catalogue, but you're right; it is a bit of a pain to go through. I'll give them a call on Monday.
The clarinet is "playable" now (and no longer flat due to the electroplating, go figure!) but I've got the problems described in post 1 with (I'm guessing) leaks. Too bad one can't do a "vacuum test" like one can with a two-piece soprano.
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2009-01-29 10:32
http://www.musicmedic.com/
http://www.windplus.co.uk/supplies/pads.html
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-01-29 22:13
Advice -
Don't try repadding your own bass clarinet. This is a difficult task even for experienced repairmen. The pads are large and porous. They have to seal perfectly, not approximately.
Spare yourself the agony and make a trip to the repairshop.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-01-29 22:35
Grabnerwg wrote:
> Don't try repadding your own bass clarinet. This is a difficult
> task even for experienced repairmen. The pads are large and
> porous. They have to seal perfectly, not approximately.
On the other hand, if you have an inclination towards self-flagellation or other forms of castigation, go ahead and do it. You were never closer to your bass than in those dark hours. ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-01-30 04:38
Geirskogul, you an try Windcraft or Windplus which will sell as little as one pad of each size, but assuming you want order from your own country, you can try Music Medic. They don't list (bass) clarinet leather pads on their website, but call/email them and they might be able to have these for you. Also check the thickness of the current pads, AND check that this thickness works good, then order what is best.
I agree that repadding your own bass clarinet might be a bad idea for SOME people, but with a lot of work it might be fun and have a reasonable result, which is better than not having a playable instrument. It might take considerably more time and effort than someone with experience and special tools, and might not be the best result it can be, but it's not impossible if you are talented in this type of thing.
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Author: Geirskogul
Date: 2009-02-10 07:20
Aww some of the pads weren't the right size. At least I'm doing only the upper half (the part with supposed leaks) going well so far. Thank god for House MD and headphones, or this would be boooring. Taking much longer than the smaller ones. Can't do the "vacuum" test, either.
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Author: Bassie
Date: 2009-02-10 12:17
I have a very similar instrument. Mine came with a sharply angled neck, unlike yours. Playing above clarion 'E' was a pain at first; practice and making all the pads fit helped. I found that the metalwork was in general quite soft so that a certain amount of 'adjustment' :-) was fairly easy. All the pads have to seat just-so, and a lot of them are connected together with mechanism that has to be spot-on.
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Author: Geirskogul
Date: 2009-02-11 07:29
Done. Still have problems with the higher, higher notes, but MUCH better. I'm thinking that they must have some deep inherent problem, but it seals and passes vacuum/blow tests, without having to gnarl down on the keys like before.
LEAK LIGHTS ARE YOUR FRIEND
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Author: Michelle
Date: 2009-02-11 19:19
You might try a few different mouthpieces then, to clear up any final problems with notes. Unfortunately the highest notes are always a problem on basses without the vent on the neck.
Play around with mouthpiece-reed combinations and you may end up with a new setup. I wouldn't expect to mimic your Bb setup, although sometimes it happens.
I'll be in Spokane this weekend, possibly with my bass. I'll listen out the window for your squeaking Good luck!
Michelle
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