 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: cosine
Date: 2009-01-17 18:13
My college's concert band is playing Meij's Lord of the Rings Symphony, and in the second clarinet part for several of the movements is a tremolo between the throat A and C# right above the break. I'm having a little trouble with those measures; I'm not quite fluid enough to use standard fingerings and have the tremolo sounds smoothly. Is there an alternate fingering I could use that would facilitate playing that passage smoothly? Or do I simply need to woodshed that measure until I can play it smoothly with the standard A and C# fingerings?
Post Edited (2009-01-17 18:14)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-01-17 18:27
Simple answer is no there are no alternatives. Best way is to keep all the fingers in the right hand down including the C# key and then do the tremolo in the left. I would suggest practising slowly and doing it in groups of 4s, 5s etc. Accent the first of each group when doing this and then alternate, i.e. A first group C# the next.
Hope it helps, its the best I can do without hearing you.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cosine
Date: 2009-01-17 18:37
Yes, that's what I was doing, keeping all the right hand fingers down and just moving the left to do the tremolo. I was hoping there was some obscure alternate fingering of which I was unaware, but it appears not.
Thanks.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-17 18:49
You'll only get to C natural with the throat A key, both trill keys and the speaker key open all together, so there's no easy way around an A-C# tremolo apart from keeping all the RH fingers down for the C# (throat A key ooo|xxxF#/C#) while playing the throat A, and then replacing all the LH fingers and thumb and adding the speaker key for the C#.
Obviously a clarinettist was never consulted when writing the parts out otherwise they'd have pointed out that tremolos across registers aren't always easy or particularly smooth.
Shame you haven't got a full Boehm A clarinet as that's an easy tremolo (Bb-D) which is only trilling with the low Eb key with your RH pinky.
Or if you've got an Eb clarinet, it's a simple D-F# tremolo in the lower register. Would you be able to do that if you had time to change between clarinets?
Are you the only one playing at this point or are there other instruments as well? If any of the flutes aren't playing, maybe it could be substituted for a G-B tremolo on flute which keeps the tremolo in one register.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Lynn
Date: 2009-01-17 18:58
I played the same piece recently and, like you, puzzled over the awkward tremolo. Peter Cigleris's method, particularly when played by multiple 2nd clarinet players, will result in a perfectly acceptable tremolo......probably what the composer originally had in mind.
Enjoy playing a fun piece of music, too.
Lynn
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-01-17 19:33
T+Sp+Akey x x x / o x x LH C sharp key for the A, and trill with RH 1 for the C sharp.
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2009-01-17 19:53
Tony's suggested fingering is the solution.
That same fingering pattern is also commonly used for the:
A to B (T+Sp+Akey x x x / o x x LH B) - trill using RH 1
and the A to C ( T+Sp+Akey x x x / o x x RH C) - tremolo using RH 1
...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-17 20:19
"That same fingering pattern is also commonly used for the:
A to B (T+Sp+Akey x x x / o x x LH B) - trill using RH 1"
If you're staying in the upper register that is (or if you haven't got trill keys), but use the upper trill key + throat A fingering if you want to stay in the lower register.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-01-17 22:14
Depending on your instrument, you may find that:
T+Sp+Akey x x x / x o x LH C sharp key for the A, and trill with RH 2 for the C sharp, or
T+Sp+Akey x x x / x o o LH C sharp key for the A, and trill with RH 2 & 3 for the C sharp.
....work better. You can also add RH E/B key to any of these fingerings to improve the intonation of both notes.
I find that on my instrument, the best-in-tune result (and the tremolo is easier to do fast) is the last one plus the E/B key.
Tony
Post Edited (2009-01-17 22:31)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cosine
Date: 2009-01-18 14:03
I'm little bit confused by the terminology...
I can tell the x and o are closed and open toneholes, and I'm pretty sure of what is meant by the LH C# and Akey, but I'm not certain what T and Sp stand for.
Thanks for the help so far.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-18 14:36
T - thumb on thumb hole
Sp - speaker key
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-01-18 19:29
I tried those fingerings that Tony and GBK suggest and found that the A-C# didn't work so well with my instrument, I found it rather stuffy and the C# hardly spoke. Is this because I have a wide bore instrument? The other trill fingering, A-B responded well.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-01-18 20:49
Peter wrote:
>> I tried those fingerings that Tony and GBK suggest and found that the A-C# didn't work so well with my instrument, I found it rather stuffy and the C# hardly spoke. >>
You have to find a mouth shape that favours the C# to make it work.
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2009-01-18 21:23
Of course, that makes alot of sense. Thanks Tony. Am I right in thinking that those fingerings are 'multiphonic' fingerings? I did notice that if I tried to push the fingering to respond I got some faint overtones.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-18 21:48
When I'm back in playing form I'll try these out.
Tony, what clarinet of yours (make and model) does this A-C# tremolo fingering work on?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-01-18 23:42
Chris P wrote:
>> Tony, what clarinet of yours (make and model) does this A-C# tremolo fingering work on?>>
Erm, eg, Buffet-Crampon R13 Bb and A, Selmer 10S Bb and A, Howarth Bb and A, Selmer C, Buffet-Crampon Eb:-)
The effect is available on all of them, but you have to 'work harder' with some.
I don't have a particularly wide-bore Boehm instrument available, but my early experience with B&H 1010s leads me to suppose that the wider bore wouldn't be a problem in itself.
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-01-19 15:36
I wrote:
>> The effect is available on all of them, but you have to 'work harder' with some.>>
It might be worth spelling this out a bit:
When you play a trill, a tremolo, or indeed any fast passage, you do best to have a sound that isn't particularly 'resonant'. That means that you don't want it to have too high a proportion of its fundamental in it.
That sort of sound would be rather thin and ugly if produced on a sustained note; but it works well in passagework, especially in a reverberant acoustic. (It seems to me that it's what accounts for the wonderful effect of the old, quite reedy French school of playing in the very 'note-y' music some of their composers wrote for them:-)
The reason is that the overtones of a short note 'die' quicker than the fundamental -- the shorter wavelengths are more quickly absorbed by the environment. In a sustained sound, they're constantly renewed; but in a fast passage, since you quickly go on to ANOTHER note, one lot of upper partials is REPLACED by the next lot, giving clarity to the sound, whilst the not-too-present fundamentals overlap a bit more. The upshot is a pleasing effect.
Try out some trills with this in mind. It applies to passagework too: a good example is the Baermann cadenza in Weber I. The 'important' notes need to be resonant, but many of the others not.
And, in the case of the fake-fingering tremolo, since you're not constrained by the need to produce a 'beautiful' sound, it means that you can 'force' the dead C# in the tremolo a bit more, and have that and the A sounding more equal.
Tony
Post Edited (2009-01-19 16:02)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
