 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: twoof1
Date: 2009-01-15 14:01
I have a 14 yr old high school freshman who has just been accepted into wind ensemble after completing his first season of marching band. He's been playing a Buffet B12 and a Yamaha YCL250 for 5 years. Now it's time to step up and purchase a wood instrument for symphonic band season seeing as how he's in wind ensemble. I have been looking at used Buffet E11's as well as used Yamaha YCL34's all of which can be pretty easily found for around $400-600.00. I have found someone locally (so. Cal) who is selling a Selmer 10 serial #V1544 which the seller claims is in nearly perfect condition. The asking price is $700.00. While my son is a very proficient musician I'm pretty ignorant except from what I pick up from him and what I've learned on the web (primarily from this incredible forum). The boss (read wife) and I would like to pull the trigger on a new instrument for him within the next couple of days for his birthday so any thoughts or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for your help.
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-01-15 14:53
Just went through this with my 14-year old high schooler. Got him a wooden clarinet for Christmas. Went with a used Buffet International (C-13). All information I found about it indicate that it is a step or two up from the E-11, at just about the same price. I am unfortuntely not familiar with Selmer or Yamaha, so I can't help you there (played a Buffet since 1983).
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-01-15 15:47
I would wonder if the new leblanc bliss models would be a best buy for the buck. Backun is the designer and most likely the factory too.
The arioso clarinet is another possibility (haven't tried it but have heard rave reviews)
I've never tried a hard rubber clarinet that I felt was any better sounding nor have the keywork of even an intermediate clarinet.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: twoof1
Date: 2009-01-15 17:01
Interesting you should mention the Leblanc Bliss. I have been researching the LB210 wood body which comes with a Backun barrel & bell. Seems like a great value at roughly the same price point as an E11 or YCL450.
I have been primarily looking at a used wood clarinet and a new intermediate wood instrument would be pushing the budget up a significant amount but my son is very passionate about his music and I want to be able to support and motivate that passion. Also he has previously commented on how much he would like to have a Backun barrel. In the grand scheme of things maybe the additional $500-600 for a new Leblanc Bliss would be the way to go.
Being a total neophyte at this I don't want to make a mistake with an imtermediate level used wood clarinet that is not worthy and since it will be a surprise birthday gift I can't really get him into the research and testing of a used piece.
Anybody here have any experience with the LB210?
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-01-15 18:01
When I got my wooden clarinet (about age 15), my grandparents insisted on getting me the professional horn that my band director recommended, and nothing else. My parents probably would have chosen otherwise to save a few $$$'s. Opening up my new clarinet that was EXACTLY what I wanted was one of the biggest thrills, and inspired me to play and play and play. If my parents had chosen a lesser horn at the time, I would have certainly been pleased. However, I knew what I had was really something, so not only did I practice a lot (because it was a pleasure), but I also took very good care of my instrument. Still play it 25 years later.
Since a clarinet is a very personal choice, how about this...get him just a Backun barrel, and put the cash you plan to spend on an instrument rolled up inside the barrel. Then let him choose.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-01-15 18:03
twoof1 -
The closer a part of the clarinet is to the player's mouth, the more important it is. Thus, the mouthpiece and the barrel have a much greater effect on tone and response than the rest of the instrument combined.
When I put my handmade mouthpiece and barrel on my nephew's plastic Yamaha, no one could tell the difference between it and my well-tweaked Buffet R-13, and even though I was playing it, I was surprised at how similar they played.
Thus, a top quality mouthpiece and barrel on a plastic clarinet will play better than a wood clarinet with a stock mouthpiece and barrel, and at lower cost.
Two of this board's sponsors sell matched mouthpieces and barrels. http://test.woodwind.org/Sponsors/Mouthpieces/ Greg Smith's combination costs $525, which isn't cheap, but for that price you get them selected by a member of the Chicago Symphony. Walter Grabner's combo goes for $345. I think that either one will make the plastic Buffet or Yamaha sound and respond better than the upgrade wood models or the Selmer you're considering.
Good luck.
Ken Shaw
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Author: twoof1
Date: 2009-01-15 18:17
He's already playing with a Vandy B54 dot mouthpiece but stock barrel.
I have heard that a mouthpiece is a very personal preference choice with tons of options out there so I would be a little leary buying something that was either not correctly set up for his instrument or did not fit his personal style.
Great feedback you guys I appreciate your incredible insight in working through this decision process.
Please keep 'em coming!
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Author: D
Date: 2009-01-15 18:18
If he is serious about his music as you say he is then I would be very wary of getting him something without him play testing. To get a better instrument and not love it is an awful feeling. He has to love the feel and sound of it and instruments, even the same make, are not interchangeable. Far better to book a slot at a store with lots of used instruments and let him try everything in the price bracket, especially if you can get his teacher to come along too. If he doesn't have a private teacher at the moment then perhaps a year of lessons with someone good would be a better investment than an instrument. Most teachers will have their own ideas about what is suitable for their pupils at a given time. Sometimes they are even right ;-)
If he is going to be marching again or doing any playing out doors he will need to hang onto his current instrument so he doesn't get the nice one trashed unnecessarily. School is a pretty risky place for a nice instrument. Whatever you end up with make sure it is something he is in a position to look after and enjoy and get the benefit of now. One of the beauties of the second hand market is you get much less depreciation if you want to sell it on later and get an even better instrument for him than you would if you got a new one now.
Good luck with whatever you choose, and hope son loves it!
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-01-15 18:39
So far I haven't heard mention of what his teacher recommends. Is he even studying privately at the moment? If not, one of the best things you could do for him to improve his sound and playing would be to invest in private lessons with a qualified teacher. The teacher would be in far better position to determine what would most benefit him as far as an upgrade.
To be quite honest, the wooden clarinets you listed would not be my choice, I was just working on a friend's E-11 for her the past few days and I was not everly impressed with the instrument. Of the two, the Yamaha might be slightly better. But in any case, it's extremely risky to purchase used instruments you don't know anything about, except for what the person selling it is telling you about it. An experienced player should test out any instrument you are considering purchasing.
As to being leery about mouthpiece/barrel conmbinations from Walter Grabner and Greg Smith, you needn't worry at all. Both make very high quality equipment. I have a mouthpiece from each of them. Additionally, they will each send you at least a couiple of pieces to try out at a time. If you explain what your son is playing currently, they can get some ideas as to what might be a good fit for him. Even better if such information comes from a knowledgeable instuctor, who might be better able to suggest which versions to order to try out.
Jeff
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-01-15 18:43
"When I put my handmade mouthpiece and barrel on my nephew's plastic Yamaha, no one could tell the difference between it and my well-tweaked Buffet R-13, and even though I was playing it, I was surprised at how similar they played."
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You probably weren't playing for trained clarinetists then.
I heard Ricardo close up (as in next to him) play test a Buffet R-13 and then his Selmer Recital and he didn't sound the same - sounded better to me on his Recital.
I was a bit surprised at the difference. If he played the Buffet for 3 days and then the Selmer woud he still sound brighter on the Buffet?
Maybe, maybe not......
Mouthpiece and Barrel of course are the most important, but I still think that the Clarinet behind it makes a difference also.
And as of right now there's no Plastic horn on the market which to me sounds as good as a good Wooden Clarinet.
Certainly anyone who can play will sound pretty good on any Clarinet that is decent, but there is a difference.
Players don't upgrade for the shiny new keys.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-01-15 18:56
Just had a friend who celebrated her 50th birthday by going to a store and playing different instruments for a couple of hours so that she could best choose the one she liked. She said that this in itself is a very fun thing to do, but it's even more fun if you know that at the end, you'll leave with a clarinet that's new (or new to you).
Buy him all the accessories he needs specifically for a wooden horn...new swab, bore oil, key oil, cork grease, new box of reeds, etc. and let him open that on his birthday, along with the cash for the instrument. Then find a good store where he can try out instruments, and set a time with them to come in. Some stores even take used instruments on consignment that can be part of the equasion. Make a day of it. Not only will he have an instrument he loves at the end of the day, but he will have gotten to spend the day with mom and dad, and I can't think of any better way that allows you to show your support and to motivate him than to all be part of the selection process.
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Author: twoof1
Date: 2009-01-15 18:57
Yes, he took weekly private lessons for 3 years up until late last summer when he started playing in high school marching band. With the time commitment of high school honors classes and marching band he has opted out of continuing his lessons for now not to mention practicing in wind ensemble every day for an hour before school plus one hour per day in concert band class.
He's a very responsible young man and I'm confident of his ability to take proper care of whatever instrument he is given.
Very aware of the need to hold on to the current plastic horns for marching band next season.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-01-15 19:57
If I think more about it, the playing test that was done with the Selmer Recital and the Buffet R-13 wouldn't be a good comparison as the Selmer had a custom barrel and bell - the Buffet didn't.
So it'a almost an apples to oranges comparison. If you sound good, you will sound good on most anything.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2009-01-17 19:43
Try before buy, and remember that very few, even new ones, of any make, model, and price are of artist quality, but some are, even the lowest price ones. Finding the good ones requires testing, by an experienced clarinetist.
richard smith
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Author: pewd
Date: 2009-01-17 21:37
fwiw, i usually recommend R13's for such students.
also - if he practices fundamentals (scales, arpeggios, thirds, articulation exercises, fingering studies, baermann, kell, kropesch, etc) with a good pvt teacher, he won't need to spend so much time working on the band music.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: SVClarinet09
Date: 2009-01-17 22:33
From a student perspective, please take your son with you. My mom went out one time and thought she bought me a Leblanc Esprit at the local Brook Mays. Boy when I opened the case, was she wrong. The clarinet was mix matched everywhere. I knew it wasn't right. I took it back, and picked out a Selmer Paris Omega after trying out a series of Buffets, Yamahas, and Leblancs. It never hurts to take your son to tryout the clarinets. Even if it is meant to be a birthday present, it's in his best interest to have him play the clarinet and see if he likes it.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2009-01-17 23:44
Well is Buffet E-13 not commonly available in USA ? I would say that it's very similar to R-13 and the difference between E-13 and R-13 are much less than between E-11 and E-13 and the price difference is not much. Like at Howarth of London E-11 is 620£ and E-13 845£ that is 225£ difference. R-13 is 1555£ and that makes it 710£ difference but the quality difference is less.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-01-18 11:50
The kid should pick out his clarinet.
Bob Draznik
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