 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: aminor
Date: 2009-01-09 23:07
The tuning C on my Buffet R13 is always flat. Almost all of the other notes play in tune but the tuning note is always flat. When I play with the organ at church, the organist is always telling me that I'm flat. This is disconcerting and throws off my performance. And I work with a Seiko tuner.
I have the Buffet barrel that came with the horn and a VD 5Rv 88 series mouthpiece. The Buffet sn is: 163915.
Is there a mouthpiece barrel combination that I can switch to that plays sharp?
The organ is tuned to 440. It's not my embouchure nor breath support and I'm an advanced player.
The main thing I am asking is if there is a better mouthpiece/barrel set up for Buffets that are flat.
Thank you!
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Author: NBeaty
Date: 2009-01-09 23:21
If your 5RV is a 13 series, then you should switch to the regular 5RV.
If it's one note, and a long C, that is flat, I would first check the organ. The odds are more likely that it would be out of tune than a C being that low.
Naturally, a shorter barrel would bring the pitch up a bit. Unfortunately for your case, it would also bring the pitch of everything else up.
Perhaps have a friend, someone who is of equal or better level than you, try the horn (preferably both with their setup on it and then yours) to see the tuning tendencies.
Nathan
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Author: cxgreen48
Date: 2009-01-10 00:00
If almost all the other notes play in tune, wouldn't it be better to just leave the C flat? Better to have most of the notes in tune than have only C in tune and others out of tune.
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2009-01-10 00:07
Maybe the organ is pitched higher...sometimes different instruments (usually accordion) are tuned to A=442-446 and it can make tuning with them tricky.
If this is the case, then buy a shorter barrel and things will be easier. Not perfect but easier...
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Author: William
Date: 2009-01-10 14:03
The organist say's your flat?? Check your tuner to be certain. Otherwise, perhaps your B4 pad does not open far enough causing the "flat" C5.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-10 14:05
Churches are always cold and that makes clarinets play flat.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: huff n' puff
Date: 2009-01-10 14:54
Hi....... is the organ the easiest of instruments to check against?
Check William's suggestion first.
Has the organist a good ear for pitch, or do you agree with his assessment?
Is it an electronic organ or has it a dodgy Bb pipe?....... H&P
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-01-10 20:21
From your description of the problem, your clarinet isn't flat - only your "tuning C." If you use a more in tune note to tune to the organ, it should leave only the one note (the C) flat.
If the organist is complaining that your whole clarinet is flat, it's a whole other problem. Then, you need to think most likely about barrels. If you're getting the C to play in tune somehow and it's flat to the rest of your instrument, your general pitch will of course be _sharp_ to the organ.
I haven't played with many organs that are in tune with A=440 (not counting electronic ones with adjustments available). Since most of the time they play alone and it doesn't matter, most organists only notice if specific notes are out of tune with the rest of the instrument. If you're having a general tuning problem all over your instrument, a barrel picked specifically to work better with this organ may be the easiest solution. The same barrel may be useless if you play in another church with a different organ.
Karl
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-01-10 21:51
The original poster stated that the instrument was checked against a tuner. If the tuner says the C is flat, then that takes the ear of the organist out of the question. If the real concern is tuning to the organ, then that's another matter. If the organ is a pipe organ, then it's tuning will be drastically affected by the temperature. To say that the organ is tuned to 440 and stays there is to say that the temperature in the church remains constant. In one of my previous churches they liked to have piano and organ duets. If they forgot to turn the heat on early enough in the morning, the two instruments were about a quarter tone apart.
In any case, a shorter barrel should make life easier. You can always pull out.
Regards,
Jim
James C. Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
"I play a little clarinet"
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-01-10 22:48
78s2CD: Maybe I misunderstood - and aminor could certainly clarify what he meant - in thinking he said only the note he was trying to use as a tuning note was flat.
"Almost all of the other notes play in tune but the tuning note is always flat." If that's what's really going on, the C will probably be flat to the rest of the instrument no matter how short a barrel he uses.
aminor: Come to think of it, though, if I read your post carefully, if seems to say that your C is flat in any situation and that this problem in the church is only an example, although maybe one that you have to deal with on a regular basis. Does anyone else complain that your instrument is flat in other playing situations? If the Seiko says you're in tune generally and the organist says you're flat generally, then, assuming the tuner is accurate, the problem is either with the organist's ear or that the organ is going sharp as it's played (more than your clarinet is). My experience, though, is that organs, because of the chill in most churches when there's no service going on, tend more to be flat than sharp. Could the organist be hearing sharpness in your pitch and misinterpreting it as flatness? I've played for lots of conductors who hear bad intonation clearly enough but mistake the direction.
How to solve the problem depends very heavily on what's out of tune - one note or the whole clarinet. If it's only long C, a tech might be able to bring it up higher, but that may be at the expense of low F, which will also come up. Obviously, if the organist is saying the whole clarinet is flat, then (if he/she is right) a shorter barrel will bring the instrument's general pitch up (probably the throat notes more than the rest). Of course, your long C will still be flat to the rest of the clarinet.
Karl
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-01-11 00:22
Karl: Quite right on all counts. However, I don't think one can talk about a single note being out of tune with "the rest of the instrument." Just as the C is flat, the clarion B may be sharp. We need to find an overall tuning that makes it easiest to bend every out of tune note into tune one way or the other. The long C, if flat, may be particularly difficult to raise.
Best regards,
Jim
James C. Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
"I play a little clarinet"
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2009-01-11 01:10
Hi aminor, Your tuner won't lie. Bring it with you to your next rehearsal and test the organ and your clarinet to check what's going on. If in fact the C is the only note that's flat compared to the surrounding notes you will need to have the hole that produces the C, and the F below, undercut in order to raise the pitch. Because those holes are so large it might not do much good though. Any other solution I can think of, new barrel, bell or mouthpiece will more then likely effect a register not just one note. Good luck, ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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