 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-01-06 20:04
I want a clarinet in the key of C. I want to play the flute/oboe parts with our church choir when a flute/oboe player can't be rounded up. I want to play the melody lines on music with chord charts without thinking.
I believe it would cause me physical brain pain to have to learn how to transpose instantly. Call me shallow, lazy, a discrace to the clarinet world, whatever. Life is hard enough without having to transpose. Don't you agree?
Anyone have a C clarinet and love it, hate it, use it or not? Where'd you get it? Can you use your Bb reeds/mouthpiece with it?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-01-06 20:36
I have a 251 model Amati and use it to practice with the kids (piano and guitar). Great thing to just be able to play off the sheet, and the girls appreciate the help.
I use a standard Bb mouthpiece and reeds with it and have no issues with the intonation. WWBW only has the more expensive 351 (all wood vs. plastic joints), however.
I'd buy it again.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-06 20:40
The Forte is made by Amati, though built to different specifications compared to bog-standard Amati clarinets.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-01-06 20:49
In addition to the Forte (sold bt DOc Hewnderson) you could also check:
http://www.ridenourclarinetproducts.com/ACclarpg.html for Tom Ridenour's Lyrique in C
And Walter Grabner had an Evette in C last time I checked:
http://www.clarinetxpress.com/Newway.html#E11C (for some reason, I can't make this link active)
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2009-01-06 21:22
I have an Evette C clarinet that, for me, plays very well. I use my Kaspar #14 (Bb) mpc on it and have been told what a "nice sound" it has. Don't get to play it as much as I would like..............
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alphie
Date: 2009-01-06 21:30
Last night our concert hall was transformed into a dance palace. We gave a ball and people were dancing to music by Johann Strauss played by the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra. It was a magic night and it was a great success.
In the Strauss repertoire there are many pieces written for C-clarinet. Here it’s very handy to use one. With all the repeats, some cut out and some not, dal segni and da capi, it’s very nice to not having to think about transposing as well, especially with a pile of 20 pieces and one rehearsal. There are always at least 10 pieces you’ve never seen before.
I’m generally very much in favour of re-introducing the c-clar in all regular orchestras. Some conductors especially ask for them and it’s nice to be able to offer them on request. I think there are reasons more than the key-issue to actually use them more frequently even in earlier music like Mozart and Beethoven. Thinking about it, almost everywhere when c-clar is asked for they always bring a certain flavour to the sound of the wind section that is lost otherwise. In Richard Strauss and Berlioz there is no reason to not use them because by that time there were already clarinets around that could play in all keys.
Alphie
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alseg
Date: 2009-01-06 21:46
Ditto on the Forte.
A really neat and fun horn.
Nicely made, plays in tune, and priced appropriately.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2009-01-06 22:34
I have a Buffet R13 C clarinet that I bought used from a member of the Marine Band about 30 years ago. I had it "Brannenized" and I love it. I had intonation problems (not too serious) with it until I found a Ralph Morgan RM-06 mouthpiece that not only sounds great but tunes great too.
When I played R. Strauss "Alpine Symphony" (3rd clarinet part doubles bass clarinet and C clarinet -- plenty of solos) years ago, it was a godsend!
Also have used it for "Barber of Seville", "Cenerentola" , Martinu "Serenade", Mahler Symphonies etc etc.
When I used it for the operas, the other first wind players all told me how much they enjoyed blending with its sound.
I totally concur with Alphie's post, above!
Post Edited (2009-01-06 22:36)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Arlee
Date: 2009-01-06 22:42
Bluesparkle said:
"I believe it would cause me physical brain pain to have to learn how to transpose instantly. Call me shallow, lazy, a discrace to the clarinet world, whatever. Life is hard enough without having to transpose. Don't you agree?"
Arlee replied:
"No."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2009-01-07 04:40
I play a Patricola CL-7 (grenadilla), which I enjoy. I've also tried a Leblanc Noblet C which sounded nice and is somewhat cheaper than the Patricola. I have a non-modified stock Amati as back-up which I don't like, sounds too harsh.
I got mine thru WW and BW, about eight years ago.
Uses a Bb mp.
Steve Epstein
Post Edited (2009-01-07 04:44)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DaveF
Date: 2009-01-07 05:03
A lot has already been said about the Forte C, and I can add that I just bought one from Omar (Doctors Products) two weeks ago, and I'm very happy with it. Seems well made, really well set up key mechanism (silver plated), even tone and resistance, and intonation that's about as well as expected. I've got some Beethoven coming up (Triple Concerto), so I'm gonna use it right away.
David
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-01-07 05:23
I have a Forte C clarinet. Other than that, I've only tried an old Buffet C clarinet and another old one which I don't even remember what it was. IMO all the reviews about the Forte C on this clarinet forum (and any other online reviews about it I could find) are very limited and missing a lot, including the ones in this thread. Mainly from the technical/mechanical point of view but also from playing point of view.
I wrote a very detailed review about the Forte C clarinet which I can email you. It's a doc file (Microsoft Word document file). I also bought the C clarinet mouthpiece made by Ben Redwine with the Forte C clarinet. Let me know if you're interested (you can contact me by email too, click on my username for my email address).
Post Edited (2009-01-07 06:07)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2009-01-07 05:27
I have a Selmer C clarinet that I use for orchestral playing and have occasionally used to cover oboe (and even 2nd or 3rd flute) parts in the pit. It gets a surprising amount of use. One year I actually used it in more concerts than I used my A. In one of the community orchestras I play with, all the clarinetists have C's. (One bought a new Noblet and the other a new Amati a few years ago.) In another, orchestra, 2 of the 3 clarinetists (but not the principal) have C's. (The other C is an E11. The principal has commented more than once how surprised he was to find that my C and his Bb blend just fine.)
I've played the other three. For my money the "fit and finish," playability, and intonation on the E11 is far superior to the Noblet and Amati. Of the three, it's the only one I would consider buying if I were in the market. I would rank the Noblet a distant second and the Amati somewhat below the Noblet. Actually, I don't think you could give me an Amati. Of course, my rankings are based on samples of one so take them with a grain of salt. At any rate, I wouldn't trade my Selmer for any of them, though the E11 is close.
The Selmer came with two barrels, one considerably shorter than the other, so my presumption is that the shorter one is for a standard (Bb/A) soprano mouthpiece and the longer is for a true C mouthpiece. I use a Bb mouthpiece. I've never personally never come across a true C mouthpiece for a French clarinet, though I know they exist and I'd like to try one.
BTW, owing to a youth misspent playing in lounge bands that used fake books and lead sheets, and later a teacher who insisted I spend lesson time on it, my transposition is pretty good but I find the C is too much fun to play.
Best regards,
jnk
Post Edited (2011-10-19 21:57)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Mike Clarinet
Date: 2009-01-07 07:50
I can't recommend a C clarinet because 1. I have no experience of them and 2. there are plenty recommendations already. Leaning to transpose by sight is not difficult and once mastered, becomes second nature, so causes no brain pain. It is a useful skill in all kinds situations, not just in Church, so don't be lazy. (Meant constructively, not negatively)
Happy new year!!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-07 08:07
The whole point of playing clarinet is to have an instrument suitable for what you're playing to make it easier for you which is why soprano clarinets are made in far more pitches than other instruments (Eb, D, C, Bb, A and even G). So if you find a situation where a C clarinet proves better than using a Bb or an A (this could be both a tonal and a technical thing), then why not take advantage of that?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Alphie
Date: 2009-01-07 21:28
Every clarinet player should learn how to transpose in various ways. It’s very useful for any instrumentalist playing a transposing instrument. But that is different from a discussion about using the correct instrument asked for by a composer.
Classical composers usually knew very well what they could expect when they choose to write in a specific key. Usually sharp keys had a brighter sound than flat keys. Some keys were considered happy, some sad, some dark and some light. This had to do with the timbre of the instruments and very much the imperfections of the wind instruments. For the strings, sharp keys involved more open strings and low positions that gave a bright sound. The more flats, the higher position and less open strings gave a darker sound.
The woodwind instruments sounded at their best using as few flats and sharps as possible. Even here the sharp keys were more open. Flat keys require more cross fingerings and gave a darker “veiled” sound.
The clarinets could only play in two or three written keys, usually never more than one flat or sharp as key signature. Mozart never writes in sharp keys for the clarinet with one exception, Cosi fan Tutte #10 Terzettino in concert E-major for A-clarinet in G-major, possibly written for clarinet in B-natural, in that case it would be in F major.
The choice of clarinet would deeply affect the atmosphere of the wind sound and this is the reason why I think it is important to use the correct instrument in every classical piece even today, even if the differences between various keys today are less noticeable.
Alphie
Post Edited (2009-01-07 21:38)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-01-08 02:30
I have an Amati 351S that I consider adequate in tone and intonation. However, when playing duets with a flute it doesn't blend as well as my R13 Vintage Bb. So, if I'm sight reading the performance I'll play the C. With the luxury of a rehearsal I'll usually transpose on Bb or A.
Regards,
Jim
James C. Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
"I play a little clarinet"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ned
Date: 2009-01-08 04:20
Well, I can't really say what you should or should not do with respect to playing the written score, but for jazz at least, were I or any other clarinet player to turn up for a band job with other than one instrument (almost invariably a Bb) heads would turn and and words would remain unspoken, and, maybe I'd not get another job with that particular group.
I play mainly N.O. jazz and tunes can be called, from a vast repertoire (on the spot, no sheet music) in any of the following piano keys: C, Db, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb and the odd minor key number thrown in occasionallly. We are supposed to know how to handle this without blinking.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ralph Katz
Date: 2009-01-08 11:25
There have been a number of posts about C clarinets. Look at these:
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=205311&t=205295
http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=1&i=123966&t=123931
Regards
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jaysne
Date: 2009-01-08 15:41
I played in Rigoletto two years ago, and when I opened up the music, I saw a fair amount of C clarinet. I bought an Amati for a nice price from Frederic Weiner in New York. I was very happy with it; it played surprisingly well in tune. I used my Bb mp and reed with it.
About transposing--even though I didn't transpose this time, I have in the past--once when my orchestra did the Mendlessohn violin concerto, I played the A part on my Bb horn. It's like others have said--it's a little tough at first, but eventually your brain gets the hang of it. And when it does, you find yourself playing pitches, rather than notes, which opens up a whole new world of how to appreciate the music.
If you want to really better your musicianship, spend some time practicing sight-transposing. Simple at first, then gradually challenge yourself. It is so worth it!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: modernicus
Date: 2009-01-08 15:45
My dad said C clarinets are for losers. This kid at school told me that one time there was this guy, and he played one, and hair grew on his tongue!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-01-08 16:12
Here's my take on transposing. No one is currently or ever has paid me to play clarinet (with the exception of the small scholarships I got in college). I am a real estate agent, a mom, a volunteer at church and school, and a new member of the community concert band. I play for my own enjoyment, and hopefully the enjoyment of those for whom I play.
Yes, professional musicians (like my jazz piano/composer/choir director husband) are supposed to be able to transpose, and if they can't do so, I can see how it would be hard to get gigs. When my husband accompanies me or asks me to play in church, he does the transposing, or whips out the properly transposed version in Finale. My current musical challenge is playing in a handbell quartet, with three other ladies. Our rehearsals are as much about the music as they are social.
I started my college education (in 1987) as a music ed major. Once I met people, like my husband, to whom the theory and performance of music came so easily, I knew it was in my best interest to be a casual music participant rather than a music professional. Changed my major to communications, and it has served me well.
I don't need to transpose for a living. I kinda look at getting a C clarinet as helping me more easily enjoy this thing we call music, which is supposed to be enjoyed by players and listeners alike.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-01-08 16:31
> I play for my own enjoyment, and hopefully the enjoyment of those for
> whom I play.
Same here. I'm past the point where I say unto myself "only losers do...". Sure, if I start with something I try to do it right, but sight-transposing is not on my "must have" list. I guess there are more rewarding things to spend limited reed time with.
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: modernicus
Date: 2009-01-08 16:32
Well, Bluesparkle, I think you have it all figured out- sounds like a C would be perfect for you. New, it seems the Amati, Forte, and Lyrique are the affordable choices and they go up from there with the usual manufacturers. Used is tougher- I have no clue other than to comb and alert various stores and get into the circles of clarinet playing musicians to find what is for sale privately. Obscure old ones (yes, in Boehm system) also come up on the great auction site from time to time if you are willing to take a chance (one has to rather obsessive in one's search, often the seller is clueless as to what they have), knowing that your purchase will require work and you can't play it ahead of time. I also want a C clarinet in the worst way, and missed getting one for dirt cheap on auction the other day, but every cent is reserved for an upcoming plumbing repair at the house that is sure to cost huge $$$.
Post Edited (2009-01-08 16:33)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: stevensfo
Date: 2009-01-08 19:42
-- "I can't recommend a C clarinet because 1. I have no experience of them and 2. there are plenty recommendations already. Leaning to transpose by sight is not difficult and once mastered, becomes second nature, so causes no brain pain. It is a useful skill in all kinds situations, not just in Church, so don't be lazy. (Meant constructively, not negatively) " --
What about clarinets in A? They're even closer (only a semitone) so aren't players of these clarinets being even lazier?
Steve
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2009-01-08 20:31
Here's a late post... I bought a "C" from Rossi as any regular reader of the BB knows. I love it, but have no idea how it compares with other brands. When ordering it I asked for rosewood instead of grenadilla, and can feel the resonance in my fingers when playing it, something I don't feel in my grenadilla Bb. Our trio looks for excuses to include it to substitute for the violin. It'll come in handy down the road as other opportunities arise to play vocal/piano duets, etc. This one was built to accommodate my own mouthpiece so there's no need for a separate one.
One day I'd love to compare a Petricola "C" side by side with this one. They were pleased to let me try their instruments at ClarinetFest this past July, and I liked them very much. The Forte would be interesting to have on loan to compare as well.
Sight-transposing isn't as fearsome as it may seem. If you start with songs that you know then you get the "feel" of playing this way without having to think a lot. But I agree, in some orchestral parts it's just way easier to use the C and reduce the juggling of stuff your brain has to process during performance.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Pay ★2017
Date: 2009-01-08 20:46
John Kelly wrote:
>> ...but for jazz at least, were I or any other clarinet player to turn up for a band job with other than one instrument (almost invariably a Bb) heads would turn and and words would remain unspoken, and, maybe I'd not get another job with that particular group.>>
To quote the words of one of the best jazz clarinettists I ever played with (Tony Coe)..."that's not very 'jazz', is it?"
Incidentally, Tony (look him up) played quite a few solos on his many recordings using a Buffet C clarinet made of boxwood:-)
Tony
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: lobooboe45
Date: 2009-01-09 04:26
Last year I bought a Ridenour Arioso C clarinet from a gentleman whom I met at an Eli Eban master class at BGSU. He also sent me an alternaive fingering chart for the altissimo register. the clarinet came with two barrels,one46mm and the other 48mm. Using the shorter barrel I can use standard fingerings up to super C. Using the longer barrel it can play up to a semitone flat by the time I get to F# above C. one drawback of the shorter barrel is somewhat sharp throat tones, but you can "shade" the tones with the right hand. One thing not yet mentioned is the beautiful tone quality of the Arioso. I quess being a trained operatic baritone can really help make this horn sing. Last week at church I sang "Lullaby" by John Ness Beck . for the Offertory of the sevice. During communion we reprised Lullaby reading directly off the music. LOts of nice comments about this approach to the music. As far as technical details I use a vandoren M-13 lyre mp with a M>Lurie premium #4 reed.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-01-09 05:27
>> When ordering it I asked for rosewood instead of grenadilla,
>> and can feel the resonance in my fingers when playing it,
>> something I don't feel in my grenadilla Bb.
That most likely has anothing to do with it being rosewood. On some clarinets you can just feel vibrations better than others. Some people like it (and I guess some don't). I noticed this on many grenadilla wood and plastic instruments, and I've tried some rosewood instruments, so the wood is not the reason.
>> but for jazz at least, were I or any other clarinet player to turn up
>> for a band job with other than one instrument (almost invariably a Bb)
>> heads would turn and and words would remain unspoken, and, maybe I'd
>> not get another job with that particular group.
"or any other player" includes me.... but if I were to turn up for a (jazz) job with other than one instrument then almost no heads would turn (except those who would think "what is that strange instrument?", form the audience, about the bass clarinet) and it would have no effect at all about getting another job with that particular group. Maybe what you mean by jazz is specific to only some types of jazz and only some cultures, etc.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-09 08:54
I got grief from other pit players because I used a A clarinet to play things in sharp keys, to the point of being called a 'cheat' by one player (who on a previous job played the clarinet parts he couldn't get around on soprano sax) and another going on that 'A clarinets have got a completely different sound' (who was struggling with something in two sharps). I doubt for a single minute if they could tell if I was playing an A or a Bb.
Now it's NOT cheating or being lazy using a different clarinet to make things easy for any given situation (and to make the player feel more comfortable), it's being resourceful. If you have the time to learn sight transposition, then good on you - knock yourself out doing it. But if you don't, and want an easy life, then do what you feel is right for you - if that means buying a C clarinet to play concert pitch parts straight off the page as is, then by all means do that. There's no harm in it - you're no less of a human than the next player - you're being RESOURCEFUL.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: ned
Date: 2009-01-09 18:38
clarnibass says: ''Maybe what you mean by jazz is specific to only some types of jazz and only some cultures, etc''...........this is in reply to my reference about turning up with multiple instruments.
Upon reflection, I suppose I am being fairly subjective and can only offer my thoughts with respect to the jazz scene in the two cities in which I play and, again, referring only to the N.O. (such as it is....) jazz fraternity.
Chris P says: ''Now it's NOT cheating or being lazy using a different clarinet to make things easy for any given situation.....''.
I guess not, if it's an accepted modus operandi within your particular playing circle.
Chris P says also: ''I doubt for a single minute if they could tell if I was playing an A or a Bb.''
I'd wager that most clarinet players would have difficulty in a blindfold test...........I would..........but that's another topic altogether.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: stevensfo
Date: 2009-01-09 20:40
-- "Now it's NOT cheating or being lazy using a different clarinet to make things easy for any given situation (and to make the player feel more comfortable), it's being resourceful. If you have the time to learn sight transposition, then good on you - knock yourself out doing it. But if you don't, and want an easy life, then do what you feel is right for you - if that means buying a C clarinet to play concert pitch parts straight off the page as is, then by all means do that. There's no harm in it - you're no less of a human than the next player - you're being RESOURCEFUL. " --
You say this Chris, because you love 'music'. You're a musician. Not a clarinet snob.
I believe it was George Orwell who said:
“During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act”
Beware the knock on the door at 3am! :-)
Steve
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-09 21:13
Uh-oh! I'm in for it now!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sambo 933
Date: 2009-01-09 21:41
Not to be argumentative or anything but I doubt that, after you got the gist of it, transposing would give you "brain pains"
Not that is can't be confusing at times, but if your just going from Bb to C than it's relatively simple.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-09 22:23
Easier to transpose up than down. Again, it's worth acquiring if you have the time to acquire it.
As C clarinets are being made, why not take advantage of them? They're being made for a reason - to be played.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2009-01-09 22:24)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-01-09 22:33
Some may find transposing second nature, but I do not. Things I find easy include:
*Layout and design of home marketing materials
*Writing a regular column for my local newspaper's real estate section
*Interpreting our state's purchase and sales contract
*Typing very quickly
*Getting sleepy at 10:15 p.m. eastern time
*Hiding the box of Dove bars behind the frozen veggies so that I get all 4 of them before the rest of the family finds them
We all have our gifts, and transposing is not one of mine. I can only hope that a C clarinet will soon be one of my "gifts." A significant birthday is next week.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-09 22:45
I let two Noblet C clarinets pass me by, and regretted it.
Years ago I bought a Lyons C clarinet (and a decent mouthpiece for it) to do the last movement of 'Carnival of the Animals' on instead of transposing. It did the job and sounded pretty good, but it was the most bendy clarinet I've ever played - bendy in that the actual clarinet bends in your hands, not bendy in terms of pitch instability.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-01-09 22:50
Chris P wrote:
> As C clarinets are being made, why not take advantage of them?
> They're being made for a reason - to be played.
If it were only about the transposition, I couldn't agree more. If the C clarinet (not all C clarinets, but the one available to be played) has a different sound, then blending is also a consideration. I was approached at the last minute by a choir director about helping out with an accompaniment involving Pachelbell's Canon. The piano part was written for four hands, and she wondered if I had a C clarinet that could play the lead part. I did, and accepted the job. I needed to transcribe the part out of the score, and having done it digitally could have it in any key. I could have played in D without undue stress, but decided to go with the A clarinet for the "darker" sound.
As far as transposing is concerned, as a one time (not very good) French horn player, it comes fairly easy to me. The biggest problem is I tend to forget NOT to transpose. So, I generally sight transpose in rehearsals and write the part out for performance. Why take unnecessary risks?
Regards,
Jim
James C. Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
"I play a little clarinet"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-01-09 22:53
> I can only hope that a C clarinet will soon be one of my "gifts." A significant
> birthday is next week.
<rummages in practice closet>
I have a spare C clarinet here. Hmm, must be an extremely flat C, nearly 200 cents flat. Unless you set your tuner to A=392. Drats! Foiled again! ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
FWIW my birthday is in 5½ weeks. ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nessie1
Date: 2009-01-10 09:12
I think that a reasonable facility at transposing a C part on your B flat instrument is useful but I also agree with the point that there can be quite difference in tone. I remember years ago watching my teacher in an open rehearsal for the Schubert Octet. When they came to the theme and variations which is in C, she tried her C clarinet but decided that the tone was too thin and insubstantial in that particular piece (after all you're up against bassoon, horn, double bass etc) so she transposed at sight on her B flat.
Vanessa.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Marie from New York
Date: 2009-01-10 20:24
I really think you should try transposing for a while. It is so helpful to know. I would start with a beginner band book and just transpose everything in it one at a time. 2 minutes a day! It will help protect you from getting Alzheimer's!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-01-10 20:34
But, but, but, there's just something so nice about the key of C. First letter in the word Clarinet. First letter in my real name. No messy accidentals. Oh, say can U C? From C to shining C. C is for Cookie, that's good enough for me.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-10 20:51
Good on you!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-01-10 21:38
If we accept for the sake of argument that MY Amati C clarinet has a thinner, less pleasing sound than my R 13 Vintage Bb, then the question remains whether the fault is with C clarinets in general or with the specific instrument. I've convinced myself that it's the instrument. I spent the morning at community band practice doubling about 50/50 between Bb and my R 13 eefer. To my ear, the sound of both was robust and pleasing. The eefer, in particular, received favorable comment from the fellow next to me. Later, at home, I played a bit on the C with a couple different reeds and mouthpieces, including the setup I use on the Bb. You would think a C clarinet's sound would land somewhere between the Bb and Eb, but no. To my ear the C clarinet sound was significantly thinner and less pleasing than the eefer. My conclusion is that the Amati isn't in the same league as the Buffets, and if I had the $$ for a real pro quality C I'd probably be a lot happier playing it.
Regards,
Jim
James C. Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
"I play a little clarinet"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bartmann
Date: 2009-01-12 12:09
Bluesparkle,
For years I tried to play everything I could on the clarinet: vocal scores, native American flute music, Chinese pentatonic flute music, jazz, renaissance, baroque, classical, romantic, classic rock, and twelve tone. At the time I was playing all tis different music it sounded good. But after learning to play the flute, a C instrument where vibrato is effective, pleasant to hear, and the norm, I haven’t been transposing absolutely all music for the clarinet as much. To my ear certain music like jazz or big band, sounds better on clarinet, and other music, like Native American, Chinese, Baroque, and Vocal music sounds better on the flute.
When I played Cole Porter on both my clarinet (transposing up) and flute, it just sounded better on the flute; perhaps because we expect such music to have vibrato. Often in vocal music the words change while the note stays the same. With the clarinet you have the possibility changing the dynamic and changing the color of the note. This is a fairly large palette to work with but the flute adds to its tonal palette a highly flexible vibrato.
If I find myself trying to achieve a flute sound on a clarinet, I’ll play the flute. Conversely if I’m playing music with many notes below middle C or Jazz, or Swing, or if I want that deep rich clarinet sound, especially the chalumeau, I’ll choose the clarinet.
I can say with confidence that in comparison to learning the clarinet, the flute is a breeze (at least for me). Kind of like how it’s easier for Germans to learn English than for English speakers to learn German, or an even more extreme analogy: Clarinet is to Flute as Icelandic is to English.
Personally I don’t mind transposing on the clarinet. Especially with a pair of Bb and A clarinets I can choose to transpose to an easier key. So often playing in a transposed key is actually “easier” than the original key. Yet late in the evening, when I’m tired, I find transposing tedious.
I remember when I chose to learn clarinet many years ago, aside from loving its sound, I chose to play it because it was easily portable. Now I find myself lugging around my huge trio case of A, Bb, and Eb clarinets. And the idea of adding another instrument to carry, the C clarinet, scares me to death. And all these wooden instruments have to be played regularly, kept at a constant humidity, and have reeds broken in and prepared. I can’t tell you how much non music making time I spend with my clarinet.
It’s nice to add to this collection an instrument which is reedless, and simpler in many respects. The flute fingerings are the same as the clarion register of the clarinet, and they apply for two octaves. The third and fourth octaves have similar fingerings to their lower counterparts.
I would never recommend to a clarinet player “Just pick up Bassoon and learn it on the side.” Because it is a highly complex, expensive instrument that requires significant time and dedication beyond making music. In contrast, adding the flute is relatively seamless and offers different possibilities for musicianship.
So Bluesparkle perhaps you can ask one of those flute players to lend you their old student flute for a couple of weeks. Get a fingering chart, get tips from them, and try it. Some people take to the flute immediately others do not. But after about two weeks you’ll have a good idea if the flute is for you. And certainly it will help you make a decision, whether you choose a C clarinet or not.
Bartmann
Post Edited (2009-01-12 13:45)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bluesparkle
Date: 2009-01-12 12:28
That sounds like fun. I got a tin whistle for Christmas and the fingering is also the same.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2009-01-12 12:41
A well respected clarinettist near me regularly plays a Noblet C clarinet to cover flute parts in pit orchestras as he doesn't play flute.
And what a sweet sound he makes - not a vapid or hard sound, but a nice full rounded sound which is somehwere between the compact tone of an Eb and the fullness of a Bb. It's distracting as I just want to stop playing and listen.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: BobD
Date: 2009-01-12 15:08
I am old enough to recall all the resistance from the teaching community against the use of hand held "transistor" calculators by students. Their argument was that learning the "times tables" and longhand multiplication and division was necessary and "good" for students. I'm not anti-transposition but am for using whatever helps us get a job done.
Bob Draznik
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-01-12 15:52
Bob, I think it's good to have both the ability to do the transpositions and the availability of a C clarinet. Sort of like with the math example you mentioned. If you rely totally on calculators, you get to the point where figuring out a 15% tip at a restaurant becomes a major undertaking if you don't have a calculator or cell phone with you! I know. I've seen many a "bright" high school kid at a total loss for figuring out a tip, and usually the poor waiter gets the shaft.
Jeff
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gracar123
Date: 2009-02-11 10:30
Hi Jim
What mouthpieces work the best with with your Amati 351 S.
Regards Graham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-02-11 23:51
Hello Graham,
I don't have a large selection of mouthpieces. The two I have used on the 351S, Vandorens B45 Dot and M13 Lyre both seem to work well. That said, while I can play well enough in tune with either Vandoren, I'm not entirely satisfied with the way my sound blends in duets with a flute. I don't know if a different mouthpiece would help.
Regards,
Jim
James C. Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
"I play a little clarinet"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gracar123
Date: 2009-02-12 01:22
Hi Jim
Thanks for giving me 2 more options to play. An informed choice/guestimate is better than none. I'll give you a post when I finally decide and have used it.
Regards, Graham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: LarryBocaner ★2017
Date: 2009-02-12 13:38
I don't know about the Amati C clarinet, but with my Buffet R13C I progressed through Vandoren UD (defunct), B45, and M15 -- all with so-so results, intonation wise. When I finally got to the Morgan RM-06 I'm currently using, all of the intonation problems went away -- sounds good too!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-02-12 18:52
Further to my previous comments, I took out the Amati today and verified that the tuning with the Vandoren M13 Lyre is excellent. I may need to recant some of the discouraging things I've said about the instrument. My main issue has been related to the the tone tending to be a bit too "pure" in comparison with my Bb (Buffet Vintage). However, it appears that this can be mitigated by choosing a reed that gives a bit more "edge."
Best regards,
Jim
James C. Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
"I play a little clarinet"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gracar123
Date: 2009-02-13 10:07
Hi Jim,
I will try the M13 Lyre. At present I am sold on synthetic reeds, namely the Fibracell. I have not tried other synthetic reeds. I use a #3. I find that the mouthpiece that came with the Amati is definitely not "free flowing". Thanks for the input. Hopefully this reed and the M13 will work for me.
Regards, Graham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2009-02-13 14:40
Hello Graham,
On Wednesday I was coaxed into trying my first synthetic reed, a Fibracel on bass clarinet. Hardly a statistically meaningful sampling, of course, but my initial impression was that the Fibracel sound was not as rich in overtones as that obtained with a well balanced Vandoren. Given my previously noted issue with the Amati C, I wonder if the greater flexibility in adjusting a cane reed might be more advantageous.
Best regards,
Jim
James C. Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
"I play a little clarinet"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gracar123
Date: 2009-02-14 06:15
Hi Jim
I'll stick to the fibracell for the time being until I find something better. I find them very consistent and reliable based on my vast experience of 2 fibracell reeds. One from Australia and one from America (cheaper even with postage when the exchange rate was more favorable). The same goes for mouthpieces etc.
Thanks for feedback.
Regards, Graham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Steve Epstein
Date: 2009-02-14 06:53
I had to play my Amati ACL 351 the other day when a pad fell out of my Patricola. I discovered that I like the horn after all. Sounds pretty much like my Patricola. Intonation? Probably not perfect on either, but decent. Biggest difference? The key work on the Patricola is much smoother. I currently use a Vandoren B45 Lyre with a 3.5 V-12 reed and a Rovner lig on either clarinet.
Steve Epstein
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gracar123
Date: 2009-02-15 08:05
Hi Steve
Thank you. I have a few choices now. It's a relief to know that there are more possibilities for my Amati 351. I took a bit of a chance buying it on line after much research and limited $. It is my 1st. clarinet after the alto sax, so I was/am relying on reviews and BB's. Thanks again.
Regards Graham.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: gracar123
Date: 2009-03-02 07:24
Hi Jim
I have just received a used M12 Lyre which I think will serve me well. I will give more feedback when I have given it a good workout. I also came across a Harry Pedler(& Co. Elkhart Ind) which needs recorking. I have temporarily put a thin strip of micropore tape around the cork to make it a firm fit. Thanks again to everyone who offered suggestions.
Regards Graham
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sylvain
Date: 2009-03-03 20:00
I like playing C clarinet. I bought mine (a C forte) because I did not want to sight transpose Der Rosenkavalier, and I had the excuse that he specifically did not want the C part to be transposed.
I know have gotten fond of its sound and color, it's little more quirky and bright and I like that.
Like everything else in music context is important, some parts were written solely for practical purpose (the main reason being that clarinets not in C could not play the notes) others were written with a specific color in mind (such as the Rosenkavalier).
I am performing Verdi's Otello in a couple days and, most of the section written in C in the 3rd act is very "bouncy" dance like music: trills, staccato and the brightness of my C clarinet brings a certain comic lightness that I would have a much harder time to achieve on my Bb.
On the other hand, there are only two bars of Bb flat clarinet in the 4th act (everything else is in A) that I transpose, because it's a tutti ascending scale and there really isn't any "character" that needs to come across and I am much more likely to play in better tune with the warm instrument.
It's all about producing the intended effect, and even though I am sure someone out there can sound like a C on a Bb, for most of us, using the correct instrument is usually beneficial.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
