 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2009-01-06 04:16
Hi all,
As a young clarinetist, soon entering the "real world" upon graduating in May, I can't help but feel that its time to replace my R13. I've had this instrument for 6 years now, have lots of fond memories, but the thing looks, and feels like its been through two world wars and back. I purchased it brand new, but the amount of play time that I've put on it is unmeasureable. Above all, it doesn't sound or tune like it once did. (Its in perfect repair)
This question is for the clarinet players on this board who have been around the block and back. When do you personally know its time to buy yourself a new clarinet? Over your careers, how many Bb clarinets have you gone though that you put through the abuse of professional playing? And what seems to be the average amount of years you get out of a clarinet before you chuck it? (or at least replace it)
Thanks in advance for reading,
Rob V.
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-01-06 05:38
Rob Vitale wrote:
> This question is for the clarinet players on this board who
> have been around the block and back. When do you personally
> know its time to buy yourself a new clarinet? Over your
> careers, how many Bb clarinets have you gone though that you
> put through the abuse of professional playing? And what seems
> to be the average amount of years you get out of a clarinet
> before you chuck it? (or at least replace it)
>
> Thanks in advance for reading,
>
> Rob V.
>
I haven't "been around the block", but it seems an easy choice for me. If you feel it isn't playing like it used to, start trying out new instruments. And compare them to your current one. When you find one that you think hands down beats your instrument as far as tuning, articulation, backpressure, etc., have a trusted ear do a blind test. Play the same passages (different styles) a few times while switching clarinets randomly. And just put a tick mark on a piece of paper under each for whichever one they said sounded better in each excerpt. The one with the most tickmarks, wins.
Just don't get 'suckered' into thinking and new clarinet sounds better because it's new. If you're working harder to make it sound as nice as your current one, it's not better. That's it. Don't think it has "potential" or that you can "get used to it", etc. etc. If you're not getting paid to play a certain brand, play what helps you play the music with the least fight. When you find a new clarinet that is just as "easy" to play, then you have yourself a contest. If not, then maybe your old clarinet ain't so bad and might have some more years left in her.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-01-06 05:48
When your technician can no longer get it into a state that you like, for a price that you can acccept, and you believe that a different technician would do no better.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-01-06 06:02
Have you only taken it to the one tech? Not to disparage their skills, but you may want to get a second opinion before chucking the horn. Mine just hit 7 years, and I think it's in its prime.
If you do go around trying horns, try the blind test with yourself actually blindfolded and your friend handing you horns at random. It's a fun thing to do, even if you're not shopping. I like handing a person the same horn twice in a row and seeing if they notice.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Geirskogul
Date: 2009-01-06 06:38
Don't let yourself be fooled, though. Sometimes even a nice plastic clarinet can be better than an old "feeling" wooden one. I'd look into greenlines, or even sending your instrument away to be repaired. Give it a shot.
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-01-06 15:25
Get a new clarinet when you want one, when your head is clear, and when you can afford it, but not because you think that a new instrument is going to be THE thing that's going to transform your playing.
Most of us who have been "around the block" will tell you that (within reason) the clarinet you play isn't what will make you a good player. A "professional" clarinet or an upgrade will only make it easier to play well.
Me? Although I play a brace of Rossi clarinets now, the R13 that I got in 1963 is still "as good" as it ever was... so good that I just spent $850 for a complete overhaul and key plating and a new case.
I've changed mouthpieces many more times than clarinets. (Hint)
Also, I might mention that I'd have no problem performing with the Ridenour T147 that I got for $50 on that auction site.
B.
Post Edited (2009-01-06 15:32)
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Author: William
Date: 2009-01-06 15:33
Perhaps your old clarinet does not sound as "in tune" as it used too because your ear has improved, which is normal as you gain more playing experiance.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2009-01-06 15:48
It may be worth trying some new barrels. That can often be the fix that an old horn needs.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-01-06 15:52
If the clarinet is not blowing the way you once remember it, I would first try replacing the barrel with either a new one of the same type, or an upgraded custom one.
I've "saved' more than one R13 whose future I thought was limited, just by finding another barrel...GBK
(Ed - It looks as if we both wrote the same thing at the same time. Great minds... )
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-01-06 16:02
GBK wrote:
> If the clarinet is not blowing the way you once remember it, I
> would first try replacing the barrel with either a new one of
> the same type, or an upgraded custom one.
>
> I've "saved' more than one R13 whose future I thought was
> limited, just by finding another barrel...GBK
>
>
> (Ed - It looks as if we both wrote the same thing at the same
> time. Great minds... )
Actually, if I were at a store with a lot of clarinets and were comparing a few of the same make/model, I would find the best playing one, and then take the mouthpiece AND barrel from that one and try that on every other clarinet. To ensure that you didn't have a great barrel on a so-so clarinet. This way you get the best barrel AND the best clarinet (hey, the barrels aren't matched to the clarinets, so as long as the upper and lower joint's serial numbers match I don't think any store would care . . . I hope . . . )
US Army Japan Band
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Author: GBK
Date: 2009-01-06 16:21
sfalexi wrote:
> (hey, the barrels
> aren't matched to the clarinets, so as long as the upper and
> lower joint's serial numbers match I don't think any store
> would care . . . I hope . . . )
Actually, if you watch the video of Buffet clarinet production:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gKjDqm4Bqw
You will see at the 3'04" mark that the final boring of the barrel and upper joint are done while the two pieces are together
...GBK
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2009-01-06 16:36
I think a lot of the above suggestions are good. In general though, I think it unlikely that a six-year old instrument would be totally beyond resurrecting with some of the things people have said like may be a little work and a new mouthpiece.
On the other hand, if you have developed a lot as a player, which you probably have in the time you mention and at the stage you have been through (high school and college), it may be that you will find something else now suits you better.
You don't say what your future plans are (further study? teaching?) or what your finances are like (but presumably you're not rolling in cash if you're still a student) but I would try a lot of options (visit some good shops and try mouthpieces, reeds and instruments etc.) and take some advice about what might be possible for your particular instrument before you spend a lot of money.
Vanessa.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2009-01-06 16:45
You might also explore buying a new or different kind of mouthpiece. Sometimes the mouthpiece makes all the difference (and they show visible signs of wear much sooner than clarinets do, too, at least in my experience).
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2009-01-06 16:52
GBK,
Didn't know that. That's neat that they do match the barrel as well. I always thought they just snagged a barrel from one line and threw it with a clarinet from another line. Just a habit and I think I read it somewhere (I think from Tom Ridenour's site on how to select a clarinet).
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2009-01-06 17:18
Rob:
I have been playing an average of 15h a week on the same clarinet since 1995.
One of my teacher, a major symphony player, has been playing his entire professional career on R13 prestige clarinets he bought decades ago. I know he is not alone in this situation. I may have read somewhere Drucker has been using the same setup for ages.
At the same time I once saw an interview of Paul Meyer claiming he liked to change his clarinets every 2 years, felt they blew out. The recent thread on Martin's setup hints he does a very similar thing.
In other words, there does not seem to be conclusive evidence that a clarinet in good repair ever needs to be "chucked", even though some players feel they do need to chuck. How you feel when you play has a direct impact on the quality of the music you produce.
so if you have lost trust in your setup, you don't like what you have and find something new (or old) you like better, then *BUY*! The economy needs it, even if you don't, and it will make you feel better and as a byproduct probably sound better..
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: smoreno
Date: 2009-01-06 17:24
well, clarinets aren't like oboes, you can have one clarinet for a rather extended period of time. I'd say 6 years, for a very good clarinet, is a young age.
My clarinet, however, has never been what I really wanted, which is why I'm going to get another relatively soon (its been about six years as well,) but there have ALWAYS been issues with mine. If your clarinet is still in good condition, unless of course you simply want a new clarinet, I'd say six years is a young age, and still a good time to still give it to your tech to keep in good shape. Do you work with Lee Lachman? He is the best in the area.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2009-01-06 19:02
Sounds like you beat the crap out of your Clarinet.
6 years is not that old!! Wipe the keys down when you are done, make sure that the bore entrances are bone dry, and have the keywork checked out by a **very good** repairman so that the keywork won't wear prematurely.
I've had my set for many years and they still play great.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Grabnerwg
Date: 2009-01-06 19:28
I'd like to go back to the original premise:
<<but the thing looks, and feels like its been through two world wars and back. I purchased it brand new, but the amount of play time that I've put on it is unmeasureable. Above all, it doesn't sound or tune like it once did. (Its in perfect repair)>>
The two statements don't mesh, if the instrument is in perfect repair, how can it look and feel so bad? I have seen beat up old 40 year old clarinets come out of a restoration process and look and feel like new; so for me, something isn't right here.
I recommend a trip to a really good repair tech who can assess the instrument and make recommendations.
Walter Grabner
www.clarinetxpress.com
World Class clarinet mouthpieces
Buffet Clarinets
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Author: redwine
Date: 2009-01-06 20:40
Hello Rob,
If you'd like to drive to my shop (east of DC) the next time Wojtek Komsta visits, he'll be glad to look at the instrument, gratis, and let you know whether it is salvageable or not (whether he does the work or not).
By the way, I play on a 1957 Buffet b-flat, a 1974 Buffet A, and a 1930's era Buffet C. My grandfather's 1907 Buffet A clarinet was just overhauled for me by Wojtek. It plays like a beauty! So, you can get probably another 50 years out of the clarinet, if you treat it well.
I would second the opinion to try a new barrel first. The barrel is the closest wood part to your moisture source, so it's the first to go. Then, you could have someone look at your mouthpiece. It could be that it has slowly warped.
(disclaimer-I get nothing out of the work that Wojtek does at my shop on the occasions that he visits)
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2009-01-06 20:48
Walter,
Though I agree with you 100% about how much a badly set up and maintained clarinet can be improved, it may just be a case of "the grass is always greener" or "if pro X plays clarinet Y, then if I buy clarinet Y, I'll play more like like pro X."
The only time "I want a different clarinet" is a problem is when players either want to correct a problem by either changing the wrong equipment (clarinet instead of mouthpiece or barrel, for example), or when they expect that new or different equipment will transform their playing.
(There's also the problem of a player being dissatisfied with what they have, but not being able to pinpoint what it is that they're dissatisfied with.)
I'm no better in the "grass is greener" regard than anyone else sometimes. But that doesn't always come out badly--it's not necessarily a fault. After all, if Niethamer hadn't mentioned your mouthpieces 'way back when, I wouldn't have become a fan.
Cheers.
B.
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Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2009-01-06 22:18
Hi Sylvain,
Thank you for your response, just reading down the list (in order) you are the first person to touch upon the instruments blowing out. Come to think of it, this is what I should have said in the post. Thank you! This is the very thing that I feel my instrument has undergone. Does anybody feel that their clarinets over time get blown out? I look at it this way. The instrument is made of wood, a porous, breathable, natural matter. When we play we send hot, moist air down the bore. We stop playing, and it drys up and cools down. Multiply that over many years I can only assume that it takes its toll on the bore. Perhaps a better question for me to ask everybody is, do you feel that your clarinets over time get blown out? and how long does it normally take to happen?
thanks again,
Rob
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Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2009-01-06 22:23
Hi David,
thanks for your response. As I just discovered in my past post, the problem with the clarinet isn't the key work. I feel as if the clarinet has blown out do to excessive play time. Do you mind me asking how many years you have been playing on your current set?
thanks
Rob
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2009-01-06 22:29
> blown out
Uh-oh. Someone call the mythbusters, please!
Send me your blown-out clarinets. They must be disposed of properly and in an environmentally friendly way. I can provide this service. ![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
--
Ben
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Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2009-01-06 22:30
Hi there,
thanks for your response. I understand now how my previous post may not have made sense. Mechanically the instrument is finely tuned. I have it serviced 3-4 times a year. The problem that I think the clarinet has undergone is bore issues do to excessive play. When I used the word "feel" in my post I was referring to the air flow of the instrument, not the feel of the key work. My apology for not being clear.
thanks again,
Rob
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Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2009-01-06 22:39
Well I can't do that, it may be a blown out piece of junk, but I still need it to eat. :o)
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Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2009-01-06 22:44
Hi Mr. Redwine,
thanks for your response, and also for your invite to come to your shop. I may take you up on that someday. As I said earlier the clarinet is in fine mechanical shape. Do you have any experience with clarinet blow out. At least the kind that may not be corrected by a new barrel?
thanks again
-Rob
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2009-01-07 02:27
If you wanted to get semi-scientific about it, you could send the clarinet to a different tech, and when you get it back, try it out, along with a handful of others (both new and belonging to friends, maybe), blindfolded. Then see which you like best.
Or just try some new mouthpieces and barrels. Lately, I found myself shocked that some student plastic clarinets I was trying played almost as nicely as my R13. The common denominator? I was using my Hawkins mouthpiece (slightly chipped rail and all... need to get it refaced) on them. Pulled out another mouthpiece and all of a sudden I disliked how they played.
If the keywork is in perfect repair but the air response is weird, I'd look to the mouthpiece first. Try your mouthpiece on some other clarinets, preferably new ones of lesser quality, and see if they all feel blown out or stuffy. If so, it's time to go mouthpiece shopping!
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2009-01-07 03:20
Since the bores on some clarinets do get larger over time (I've had friends measure them, and I also have measured them) a barrel may help. It did help me with one of my clarinets which changed over 7 years. A mouthpiece will probably change over 6 years, so also look into that. I'm not saying all clarinets change like this, but some do.
If the bore has changed, you can get a bore replacement, which will bring the bore back to original specs. However, it sounds like you want a new one, so look at new ones. You have your own standards; stick to them. Chet Rowell has some excellent clarinets in stock right now.
Chris
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Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2009-01-07 03:55
thanks Chris, you confirmed my suspicion with the bore opening. I've never heard of a bore replacement before. How does that work? Might be an option. I can only assume that its a very involved process.
thank you sir
Rob
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2009-01-07 04:24
"...I said earlier the clarinet is in fine mechanical shape...."
Have you checked that there is not lint build-up in the tone holes, especially at the bore end of the tone holes, and the undercutting of those holes.
This is possibly a major reason for the label "blow-out".
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-01-07 05:42
Gordon's last post is exactly what happened to a local player. She and her teacher thought it was time to change the clarinet because it just didn't play like it used to, stuffy and flat for some notes (especially throat notes). They couldn't find a problem and speculated that maybe it's an invisable crack, etc. It was (other than a few minor adjustments needed) very good mechanically.
It turned out there was a lot of dirt exactly in the way Gordon described (we call it tone holes bird nests). She had no reason to believe this is the reason because she had it repaired several times (by more than one repairer), including having the tone holes cleaned, and she said the problem always comes back after a while. It turned out that the tone holes were never really thoroughly cleaned, just enough to feel an improvement (i.e. some of the dirt was left, which helped grabbing even more dirt faster). In her case a likely cause was a bad swab combined with other dirt buliding the nests. After the tone holes were finally cleaned and she changed to a new (and good) swab it was a different world.
You can only see this dirt if you remove the key and look into the tone holes with strong direct light. Worth checking, since this player was sure, just like you, it is in very good condition, and the problem must be something unusual she can't see, when in fact it was just a very straight forward problem.
After fixing the instrument it was possible to find out that, for whatever reason, the barrel on this clarinet wasn't very good either. Made the instrument a little stuffier. Other good barrels (including much cheaper but very good ones) improved it even more.
Post Edited (2009-01-07 05:44)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-01-07 05:55
>> Actually, if you watch the video of Buffet clarinet production:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gKjDqm4Bqw
>> You will see at the 3'04" mark that the final boring of the barrel
>> and upper joint are done while the two pieces are together
Actually not just the finishing. The entire bore is made with the top joint and barrel together. I was told that by a clarinetist/repairer/machinist who was there watching them bore the clarinet in the factory.
>> If the bore has changed, you can get a bore replacement,
>> which will bring the bore back to original specs.
How is that possible when the "original specs" are not accurate enough? Maybe even the original specs of that specific clarinet were the reason it was chosen. If bringing the specs back to whatever the manufacturer writes, or by measuring other clarinets of the same model, it might be different the original (but who knows, it could even beb etter in some cases).
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Author: Chris Hill
Date: 2009-01-07 15:13
I've seen Guy Chadash replace bores, and it is like major surgery. He first reams out the top half of the bore to very large dimensions, then epoxies in a rubber or wood insert. Once it dries, he reams out the bore, then mills the toneholes, replaces pads, etc.
I hope my description is helpful- I'm sure I don't know enough to actually describe it in enough detail. While he and I are partners in our mouthpiece business, I have nothing to do with his clarinet making and repair business. Several of my friends, colleagues, and students have had this done, and the instruments have been improved by this process.
There may be others who do this process.
Chris
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2009-01-07 20:40
I think Morrie Backun also does the reboring service. I recall either a discussion about that here on this board, or a mention of it on his website.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2009-01-08 02:51
thanks very much for your post, I will consult my repair tech about this issue next time I see him. Just by looking everything seems clean. But who knows?
Thanks
-Rob
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