 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Vrat
Date: 2008-12-31 01:46
I am unable to trill c4/d4 (g5/a5) fast enough. And it just sounds uneven and cumbersome. Is there a routine to develop it?
Thank you, Vrat.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2008-12-31 03:17
That's a hard trill for everybody because the ring fingers are "weaker" than the other fingers. I don't know of a routine specifically designed to address this problem other than just regular practice.
However, in a pinch, if you need a quick g5/a5 trill, you can trill the bottommost side key (the one you use for eb4 and bb5) instead of your ring finger. As long as you are trilling fast enough (especially if you first make a single trill with your ring finger then quickly switch to the side key), the side key can be an acceptable substitute for the regular fingering in certain contexts.
Post Edited (2008-12-31 03:20)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: pewd
Date: 2008-12-31 03:23
the mechanism studies in the klose' book are helpful for developing the various fingering combinations.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2008-12-31 04:43
I almost always find myself having to practice some kind of trill. For me the pinkies are the root of my frustration. Here is how I practice them: I'll take the two trill notes and play them as double dotted eighth notes followed by a 32nd note. (first trill note for the eighth and second for the 32nd) Then I'll reverse the rhythm and play the 32nd note first and the double dotted eighth second. I'll do that as fast as my fingers can go while still in rhythm. Then I'll alternate between the two notes on the rhythm eighth followed by 3, 16th note triplets, and reverse that rhythm as well. I hope that is clear, if only the BBoard had a Finale option. It's easier to notate then to spell. Any way after I practice it like that for a while, I'll trill. I hope that this helps, if not, I'm sorry.
When in doubt....trill?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Rob Vitale
Date: 2008-12-31 04:52
oh yeah, I forgot, sometimes for trills you can actually use your wrist to help your finger out. Just be careful not shake the clarinet, as that may result in a squeak, and will probably look silly. This is a quick and dirty method, and probably wont serve to help the ring finger at all, as far as independent finger dexterity goes. Might be something to dabble with?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Vrat
Date: 2008-12-31 14:30
Thank you all for responses.
Rob: I think I understand and I'll try it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-12-31 15:34
Using the side Eb/Bb key for this trill (G-A) with RH finger 1 is much better than trilling with LH3 as LH3 will fatigue easily. Don't stick with conventional or predictable fingerings for trills - experiment to see other ways of getting them. You'll be surprised that a seemingly illogical way will work.
It depends on your clarinet, but a much easier trill for upper register A-B can be done by trilling LH1 instead of LH2 as well as being less 'clanky' as the 2nd ring key isn't opening and closing with LH2. It works much better tuning-wise on large bore clarinets (over 14.9mm eg. B&H 1010, Peter Eaton Elite and Selmer BT/CT/Series 9) than pea-shooter bore clarinets (less than 14.75mm) such as R13s or Recitals.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-12-31 16:58
Hi,
I'd heard a different reason than a weakness of the ring finger as suggested by mrn. If you lay your hand on a flat surface and lift each finger one at a time, you'll quickly see that the ring finger does not even a 1/3 of the height that the other fingers can achieve.
I think it's an ergonomics problem of sorts dealing with they way that our hand has evolved. Not being a orthopedic physician, it looks like the ring finger is a little crowded.
Check this out and see how the ring finger is not as free to move (a layman's analysis to be sure).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexor_retinaculum_of_the_hand
HRL
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-12-31 19:08
You'll see just how lazy your ring fingers are if you put either hand (doesn't matter which) palm down on a table with your fingers and thumb spread, but with your MIDDLE finger tucked in under your palm.
Then lift each remaining outstretched digit (thumb, index, ring and pinkie) on its own in turn and you'll be very hard pushed to lift your ring finger - I doubt anyone can lift it off the table at all. Don't try too hard to lift it (or lift it with help from your free hand) as you could do yourself damage.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-12-31 23:16
I believe it was the composer and pianist Robert Schuman that devised something to strength that finger for his piano playing but he broke his finger in his sleep one night because of the devise he attached to it. It is the weakest finger on our hand and it works better in conjunction with the pinky finger. Don't be afraid to let the pinky move when trilling a c -d, or g-a. As far as overcoming your problem I suggest that it will take a long time. Practice trilling slowly, like 16th notes instead of an actual trill, and do it raising the ring finger as high as possible. This will give that finger the maximum workout. Do it maybe three times a day for several minutes at a time. You can do the same thing sitting at a desk or table, just work that finger in a steady, controlled manner. It's just like going the gym but here you're only working on one finger. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
Listen to a little Mozart, Live performance
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2008-12-31 23:33
Ed Palanker wrote:
> I believe it was the composer and pianist Robert Schuman that
> devised something to strength that finger for his piano playing
> but he broke his finger in his sleep one night because of the
> devise he attached to it.
In addition, there are some historians who think Schumann also tried (unsuccessfully) some radical surgery to separate the shared tendons between the pinky and ring finger.
Ouch...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2009-01-01 03:23
Vrat -
Larry Guy described finger-strengthening exercises he uses for students with your problem. Go to http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=20&i=289&t=289 and search for the section called "COLLAPSING JOINT."
Most often, a "lazy finger" is caused by tension. That is, you're not relaxing the "up" muscles when you move your finger down, and also not relaxing the "down" muscles when you move your finger up. Practice isolating the muscles and keeping their actions separate. The Jeanjean "Vade Mecum" is made up almost entirely of exercises to learn to do this.
Your finger motion should come entirely from the knuckle joint (where the finger connects with the hand). Any curling at other joints (between the parts of the finger) takes extra effort and wastes motion.
Also, there is no ring under the left ring finger -- just an open hole. It takes almost no downward pressure to seal that hole. You should (almost) let the finger drop of its own accord, with no effort. Practice going from low C to D and back again, with your hand completely relaxed on the C, pulling the finger up with no resistance for the D and letting it drop down for the C. Concentrate on making the motions as small and light as possible.
Ken Shaw
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2009-01-01 05:41
Vrat, are you allowinf the pinky to move with the ring finger while trilling? If you lean the pinky and don't allow it to move it will slow the ring finger a lot. Also you can try sort of jiggle (I think it's the word) your entire arm and not just the finger, for a faster trill. Try leaning your fingers on a table and hold the rest of your hand and arm in the air. Try trilling with just the ring finger (of course allowing the pinky to move with it). Then jiggle your entire hand and arm with the finger trill. Your first two fingers will also move but you can keep the finger pads in place so they will still seal the holes. Then try it on the clarinet.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2009-01-01 18:34
Record your trilling at various speeds and listen. You will find that evenness and a balance of speed between your "problem" trills and the others (slack off on the speed of the dexterous fingers to match your slow fingers) will make the passage sound just fine without the fireworks.
Bob Phillips
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
