 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2000-10-11 21:12
Do you accept "newbies" asking questions? Just found your site. Think it is great. Turned 75 last week and now that I have time I am returning to trying to play clarinet. Bought "an ill wind that nobody blows good", (an Eflat alto off E-Bay) and have an old old Buffet Bflat I am trying to find out something about.
Bought it about 30-40 years ago, used and just stored it away. It needs TLC badly. Corks and pads look ok, it plays well but is badly tarnished and I guess out of alignment. All parts (except neck barrel) are marked "Buffet Crampon & Co, Paris, made in France, with the capital initials "LP" stamped on all pieces. The bell additionally has the notation "W.H.CUNDY, Boston." On the lower end of the barrel are the numbers 13258 (or 13256). Those are the only markings. I have two neck barrels, one, looks like a later addition and may be plastic, the other is marked Henri Selmer Paris with the numeral 9 underneath the crest, also marked "made in France." What kind of a "melange" do I have here and is it worth getting refurbished etc, as I would like to find a nice home for it.
Bob Arney
2501 6ty St.
Emmetsburg, IA 50536
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Author: bob gardner
Date: 2000-10-11 22:52
Bob welcome aboard. Of cource you can ask anything you want pertaining to the thing we love second best. You may not always get an answer, but give it a shot. I'm sure that more them one person will have an answer to you clarinet.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-10-12 01:53
Hopefully the two main sections are of the same brand. Even better if they have matching serial #s. Its common for some folks to change to different barrels to correct tuning or tonal qualities. As for the bell, just make sure low E or B (middle staff) are in tune. Some bells are different in length also. My own "good" clarinet is fitted with a mutt bell from a Rene Dumont. This is because when my horn was repadded in S. Cal. years ago, I got it back with a shorter, plastic bell with "Bay State" hand engraved on it by a 5 year old. The Dumont bell is more in tune plus looks a heck of lot better. Anyway good luck and welcome back to clarineting!
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2000-10-12 03:34
The Bell and both body section seem to be the same, as to serial numbers, wherre do I find them? I only found one number which I thought might be a serial number on the lower section of the barrel. All sections have a stamped in "LP" following the Buffet Crmpon & Co information. What does that mean? (May be the guy who originally owned it? :}
Bob
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2000-10-12 03:37
The Bell and both body section seem to be the same, as to serial numbers, wherre do I find them? I only found one number which I thought might be a serial number on the lower section of the barrel. All sections have a stamped in "LP" following the Buffet Crmpon & Co information. What does that mean? (May be the guy who originally owned it? :}
Bob
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-10-12 06:31
Buffet Crampon is the brand name and is regarded by most as one of the best brands. They make student to pro models. The serial # isn't always on both sections on some models and brands. Some times the # is hard to find on older horns, but with a little cleaning and rubbing you can usually find the # on the back near the top or bottom. This wood is very hard and the number is stamped, not carved. So with time and age the wood in the stamping will rise (swell) up and close back up enough to hide the numbers. I found the numbers on my old oboe by rubbing the suspected area briskly with a dollar bill and the number became visable again, faintly but enough to read it.
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-10-12 07:15
Hi, Bob -
Allow me to add my welcome to the others. Glad you found the place. The population here ranges in age from grammar schoolers to folks like us, Bob. I turned 65 not too long ago. Some of us are re-starts, some are 'newbies', and some are old pros. Questions are welcomed here and, more often than not, informative answers result. Questions and comments usually pertain to clarinets and clarinet playing. Other subjects occassionally come up and, if they're not too far off the track, our Webmaster, Mark will allow them. Ones that are really off the beam are directed to the exit.
Buffets are usually, if they haven't been badly abused, pretty good horns. The first step to playing, in my opinion, -- whether your're a brand new beginner or, like yourself, have some past experience -- is *get the horn in playable condition*. Nothing is more frustrating than trying to make music on an instrument, any instrument, that doesn't work right. It'll squash your enthusiasm faster than anything I know. Have you had your horn evaluated by a repair technician? Ninety-nine percent of them will look it over for you for no charge and give you an estimate of how much it will cost to restore it to playability, with an explanation of what needs to be done. That would be the first thing I'd recommend. Find out if it's any good, whether it's worth fixing and how much that will cost, or whether you should be thinking about replacing it. When you start mixing barrels and bells, well, it starts raising questions, if not red flags, about the instrument; where it's been, how it was treated or mistreated, why those parts are not original and a whole lot more.
LP simply means: Low Pitch. That's today's standard pitch, A-440. You're fine there. The clarinet is probably pretty old to have that mark, unless it's an Albert system. Not many Boehms were marked that way.
Did you play the Bb horn before you decided to put it away?
Nice chatting with you, Bob. Now that you know where we are, come visit often.
ron b.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-10-12 14:49
Bob -
Welcome to the family. Actually, you never really left. Your body still knows how to play, even if you haven't touched a clarinet for years, and it will all come back surprisingly fast - a month or so at most.
As others have said, Buffet makes high quality, professional clarinets. With instruments as old as yours, the lower quality, student instruments would have another brand name, so yours is probably a good one. The stamping "L.P." means "Low Pitch" which is A-440, the same as used today. ("H.P." means "High Pitch" or A-456, about a quarter tone above todays pitch. High pitch clarinets are useful only for playing alone and can't be used with A-440 instruments.)
All Buffets except the very earliest (which yours is not, since it has a U.S. importer's name stamped on it) have serial numbers. On the older instruments, they are tiny numbers (and sometimes letters) stamped on the rear at the very top of the upper joint and the very bottom of the lower joint. The wood on the old instruments is very dense, and the serial numbers are hard to read. Dampen a handkerchief or paper towel and rub off any dirt at those spots and look diagonally at it under a strong light and you should be able to make out the number. I often use an old toothbrush dampened with a drop or two of water to get the dirt out of the stamping. A magnifying glass also helps.
Once you make out the serial number, go to the serial number tables on this site at http://www.sneezy.org/clarinet/Equipment/HowOld/Buffet.html to find out the year your instrument was made.
The wood barrel you have is made by Selmer, another company that makes professional quality instruments. "Series 9" is a model that was made in the late 50s and early 60s. If it plays well on your Buffet, fine. Otherwise, try a Buffet barrel. Most musical instrument stores have them. A new one may cost close to $100, but you should be able to get an older one for less than half that.
The next question is which fingering system you have. If the instrument has only two keys for the right little finger, it's an old, "simple system" (a/k/a "Albert system") instrument and has different fingerings from the "Boehm system," which is generally played the U.S. Simple system clarinets sell only for low prices, even if they are Buffets. However, the fingering system you learned to play on will be the easiest for you to pick up again.
The instrument is probably worth fixing up if you want to play it.
Good luck. Let us know how you progress.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2000-10-12 17:21
Thank you all so much. Frankly I am overwhelmed at the wonderful response given to a re-start old guy like me. Now for a real puzzler. Who knows where in NW rural Iowa (or Southern MN) there is a good repairman to evaluate and align my instrument? Or is that a commercial question and not a subject for discussion?
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Author: Mark Charette, Webmaster
Date: 2000-10-12 17:47
Bob Arney wrote:
>
> Now
> for a real puzzler. Who knows where in NW rural Iowa (or
> Southern MN) there is a good repairman to evaluate and align my
> instrument? Or is that a commercial question and not a subject
> for discussion?
That's a fine subject for discussion, Bob. The "commercialism" I try & keep out is the real "self-promotion". We have some fine repairfolk on the list who may want to give you their name via email, and someone else may list a name or two right here for you to contact.
It's one of those "judgement" things I have to do on this BBoard and very seldom do I have to do anything at all!
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2000-10-12 19:18
Thanks to your fine help I have found one serial number on the bottom. What I thought was a "3" turned out to be a "B" which makes the number 1B258 or 1B256 (the last stamped number is blurred.) I find this hard to accept as that dates the instrument as 1887. I have to be wrong, don't I?
There is no number on the top section, none at all, and none on the bell.
Where do I go to find out anything about "W.H. CUNDY of Boston" ? That might help establish a date for the instrument.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-10-12 22:31
Cundy is prob. best known as being "associated " with Harry Bettoney of Boston , who made good clarinets, the metal Silva-Bet is still highly regarded, from maybe 1900 to 1940, Mark please help if H B's resume isnt available via "Search the Phorum" . Don
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-10-12 23:09
Has the L P factor been addressed? The serial number dates the horn to the early 1900's when Alberts were being produced and identified as HP or LP. Is this instrument a Boehm system?
ron b.
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2000-10-13 00:14
From what Ken Shaw said about the keys for the right little finger, I have 4, not two, so that should make it a Boehm, marked Low Play, right? The serial number dates it as 1908 according to Mark Charette. Now all I need is a good repair-person and I am in business. I did play the B-flat some, non-professionally MLYBR (many long years before retirement) both in a band and in a small symphony in Anchorage Alaska so I hope it will come back. Doubt I will ever have a good lip again tho, but life is still very good! Thanks again to all for such wonderful help
Bob
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Author: Fred
Date: 2000-10-13 20:39
Bob, I bet you are going to be surprised how much comes back, and how quickly too. I hope you find some group to play with . . . it makes it so much more fun. Many of us are in community bands and/or church orchestras. Most will welcome you with open arms and give you tons of encouragement. And remember, we don't have to all be soloists to have a wonderful time playing. Welcome back!
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Author: Steve Hartman
Date: 2000-10-14 12:55
Bob:
You may have a priceless treasure! The instruments of that era may not be as well in tune or robust-sounding as today's, but they often have a smoothness and purity of sound which make them a real pleasure to play. Once you have the keys working and good pads, I would suggest looking for a barrel. You should probably wait until you've played it for a while to try fix the intonation, as the instrument will be going through changes as it's played.
Steve Hartman
NY
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Author: Bob Arney
Date: 2000-10-28 22:20
Back again. More interesting news. Sent my old (1908) Buffet Crampon off to be refurbished and rushed out and bought: Selmer hs* mouthpiece, Rouvnor ligature and a batch of reeds. Oh, Yes--even bought a new case for my "B-Flat." It came back and was in great shape (better than my lip now is) greased it up, played for a short while (noting how tired my lip/ hand/thumb got) and noticed it sounded a little less "jazzy" than I remembered. Took it apart and put it in my new case. Does not fit? Why--finally figured it out. It's an "A". I then remembered that I had given my Selmer B-flat to my daughter some time ago and just found out last week that she gave up on it and sold it.
My "new" oldie will fit (somewhat) in the new case but I have a new question. Memory being what it is now (and not what it used to be) maybe you folks can remind me why did I keep two barells, one is a "Selmer 9" which measures 60.5 mm and the other is an unmarked longer one, 66mm. I really can't remember what I used for what. Anyway, the instrument plays well not accounting for my digital ears and bad lip. Would appreciate comments please.
Bob Arney
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