 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: drmoldawer
Date: 2008-12-11 17:36
I was in Roberto's in NYC, where I spotted what appeared to be a teeny (smaller than Eb) wooden clarinet with no key actions, just the body with holes drilled in it. Detachable mouthpiece and bell. The sales guy called it a "clarinetto" but googling hasn't turned anything up. I'm seeing tiny Ab sopranino clarinets, but nothing without keys. Anyone heard of this?
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Author: Stargatto
Date: 2008-12-11 18:21
"Clarinetto" is the italian word for "clarinet" and has perfectly the same meaning. How old is this instrument? It may be an old Ab or G sopranino clarinet...May it be a Christmas toy?!?
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Author: drmoldawer
Date: 2008-12-11 19:49
That pocket clarinet is close, but the one I saw had a bell. And it was a new instrument at Roberto's, the guy even mentioned the manufacturer who makes them. Unfortunately, I forgot who.
But luckily this pocket clarinet is far cheaper and does the job as far as my holiday gift needs go. Thanks!
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Author: hans
Date: 2008-12-11 20:49
The name clarinet is derived from the Italian word clarinetto meaning "little clear one"
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-12-11 22:47
The word "clarino" in Italian means trumpet, referring to the technique used on the baroque trumpet producing notes only using overblown harmonics for playing melodies.
The word “clarinetto“ is the diminutive form of “clarino”, a small trumpet, referring to the first two-keyed clarinet that could overblow, unlike the earlier chalumeau, from greek: kalamos meaning “reed”, that could not overblow.
Alphie
Post Edited (2008-12-12 17:30)
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-12-12 17:33
With the previous post I want to remind hans and others of the thread initiated by Tony Pay, don’t make statements that are false. It’s essential for clarinet players to have correct information about where the name comes from.
Alphie
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-12-12 17:55
So....where did "the name" come from?
Bob Draznik
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Author: giuliano
Date: 2008-12-12 18:10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarinet
As far as I know, wikipedia says the truth, in this case...
Giuliano Forghieri
Nubilaria Clarinet Ensemble, arranger, clarinet, Eb clarinet
Accademia Musica Insieme, founder, arranger, clarinet
www.musicengraving.it
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-12-12 18:18
I can’t explain where the letter combination c-l-a-r-i-n-o comes from, but it was used for the diatonic register on the baroque trumpet from the 8th partial and ascending and is the Italian word for trumpet. As I said before, the word clarinetto (eng. clarinet, ger. klarinette, jp. kurarinetu) is the diminutive form of this word meaning a small trumpet, referring to the sound of the early two-keyed clarinet and also to the fact that it could overblow, unlike the earlier chalumeau. The fact that a clarinet overblows is per definition the difference between a chalumeau and a clarinet.
Do I make myself clear enough?
Alphie
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Author: giuliano
Date: 2008-12-12 18:38
Alphie, please let me say the truth: the Italian word for Trumpet is "Tromba", not Clarino.
Clarino *was* indeed a particular type of Trumpet, but that word is not in use anymore here in Italy. People sometimes use Clarino instead of Clarinetto, but that's simply a mistake, usually due to a poor knowledge of the Italian language.
Giuliano Forghieri
Nubilaria Clarinet Ensemble, arranger, clarinet, Eb clarinet
Accademia Musica Insieme, founder, arranger, clarinet
www.musicengraving.it
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-12-12 19:07
Ok, I stand corrected about present day Italian. Clarino is the name of the valve less baroque trumpet or natural trumpet only. As long as these were in use their parts were marked “Clarino” in the scores and it was certainly the name at the time when the clarinet was invented.
Alphie
Post Edited (2008-12-12 19:10)
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-12-12 19:19
I always understood that clarinet was a variation on clarino, i.e. little trumpet. The earliest known duets for the clarinet were also called Duets for the mock trumpet.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-12-12 21:41
There's several of these on the market - Hohner, Jupiter and Guntram Wolf make very basic chalumeau-style clarinets (with up to 3 or 4 keys) for primary school children to start on, then transfer to a Bb clarinet later on.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: hans
Date: 2008-12-13 00:49
Attachment: Clarinetto.bmp (325k)
drmoldawer,
Maybe Alphie knows more than the people who published my encyclopedia Americana. Here is a scan of the page. Believe whomever you like.
Hans
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-12-13 07:55
Well since the french is clarinette and the 'ette' means little, it's definitely a little something!
I seem to remember reading that it does indeed come from 'little trumpet'.
In the bands around here, I've noticed that clarinetists will call them 'clarinetto', whereas others will sometimes say 'clarino'.
Steve
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-12-13 09:21
Well, this really became an issue. hans, I certainly know more about clarinet and its history than the “general” information in the article in the Encyclopaedia Americana after half a lifetime with early clarinets both as a performer and a lecturer on the subject. All I wanted to do was to give some fuller information about the name “clarinetto”.
I can see in your article that they have translated “clarinetto” with “little clear one” so I understand your post but as clarinet players we could do with some more information than that, if nothing else so for curiosity. Since you found it in a dictionary I apologise I said it was false. Let’s ask the Italians on this board if the translation is appropriate: Clarinetto = Little clear one?
Alphie
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Author: giuliano
Date: 2008-12-13 10:55
Clarinetto=little clear one is correct, imo.
But that's not how we "hear" the word, so to speak. Claro has been substituted by "Chiaro" (Clarinetto would become "Chiarinetto"), thus when we hear "Clarinetto" we think about the instrument itself, not about something clear.
Steve: as I wrote above, people here still use the word "clarino" referring to clarinet, but that's a mistake or sometimes a conscious use of a wrong word, a way to give variety to the conversation (I do that from time to time, and is something rather common here).
I have never heard the word Clarino referred to a trumpet, except in philological context.
Giuliano Forghieri
Nubilaria Clarinet Ensemble, arranger, clarinet, Eb clarinet
Accademia Musica Insieme, founder, arranger, clarinet
www.musicengraving.it
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Author: hans
Date: 2008-12-13 14:28
Attachment: Clarino.JPG (697k)
Alphie,
Re your: "The word "clarino" in Italian means trumpet", check the attachment..... If you think it's wrong, I suggest you take it up with the people who publish the English-Italian dictionary. Maybe you can get Tony Pay to tell them to change it.
Trumpet in Italian is "tromba".
Apparently you are confused. I'm sorry I don't have any more time to help you with this.
Hans
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Author: Liquorice
Date: 2008-12-13 16:08
hans- Alphie is not confused. The modern "tromba" does indeed mean trumpet. But if you look in many, many Baroque scores (eg. Vivaidi) you will find that the word "clarino" was used to indicate trumpets played in the higher register.
If you look in any MUSIC dictionary I'm sure you'll find that clarino refers to both trumpets in the 17th and 18th century as well as clarinets. I just checked two of mine, but can't be bothered to scan them as attachments.
Here's an internet link instead:
http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/textc/Clarino.html
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-12-13 16:51
I do like the Italian suffixes '~one' (o-nay) and '~ino' (ee-no) used to designate larger and smaller variants of the object they're tagged onto - violone, trombone, flautino, violino - you can see from the word they're either a large or small instrument.
I'm going to throw the word 'clarion' into this just to see what it stirrs up.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: marshall
Date: 2008-12-13 18:12
Does anyone on this forum have one of those pocket clarinets? Is it something worth the $80 or so that they cost?
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-12-13 19:08
hans, watch your blood pressure and don’t you worry. You can save your time, I don’t need any help from you.
Tromba is indeed the modern term for trumpet, but my explanation about the origin of the term “clarinette” is indisputable:
“The name is plainly a diminutive of “clarino”, the Italian for trumpet, and particularly for the higher register of this instrument, much used in the 17th and 18th centuries, and much in vogue when the clarinet was invented. To J. G. Walther, writing in his Musicaliches Lexicon of 1732, ‘it sounded from far off not unlike a trumpet’.”
G. Rendall: The Clarinet (page one, fourth line).
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Author: drmoldawer
Date: 2008-12-13 20:03
Giuliano--yes, that's the one. that's about 300 bucks American! holy cow. maybe I'll ask for an iPod instead.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-12-18 23:50
Attachment: Klarinettist barock.GIF (48k)
Just an addition to the side theme on this thread:
In an early description dated 1722, Filippo Bounanni refers to a ‘new’ instrument called ‘clarone’. The name refers to a clarinet but indicates something low, lower than an oboe:
‘…which sounds much lower than those [the notes (pitches)] given by the oboe.’
Eric Hoeprich, famous performer and scholar of early clarinet writes in his highly recommended newly released book ‘The Clarinet’ (Yale University Press) in chapter 3:
‘The word ‘clarinet’, a diminutive of ‘clarino’, refers to the earliest clarinets high, overblown register. The Italian, clarinetto, presumably was uncommon when Bounanni was writing.’
The translated text to the attached picture is (here the clarinet is again compared to a trumpet):
‘When the trumpet call is all too loud,
The clarinet knows how to please
Eschewing both the high and the
lowest sound,
It varies gracefully; and thus attains
the prize.
Wherefore the noble spirit,
enamoured of this reed,
Instruction craves and plays
assidouosly.’
Alphie
Post Edited (2008-12-19 00:03)
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The Clarinet Pages
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