 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Buffet Boy
Date: 2008-12-06 23:03
How to you Double tongue?
I mean I can double-tongue, but my teacher told me that there a special placement of the tongue when you double-tongue on a clarinet. Also, I was playing my clarinet today, alone, and I realised that my second tongue when double-tonging was really not good sounding.
So my question is, how do you double-tongue right on a clarinet.
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Author: ElBlufer
Date: 2008-12-06 23:54
ta-ka-ta-ka-ta-ka and a TON of practice. If you start now, I wouldn't expect your second attack to sound even somewhat decent for a year or so. I find both double and triple tonguing very useful though, and the skill to do so (no quite cleanly) has actually improved my single tonguing as well.
My Setup:
R13 Clarinet (Ridenour Lyrique as my backup/marching instrument)
Walter Grabner K11 mouthpiece
Rico Reserve 3.5's
Bonade ligature
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Author: William
Date: 2008-12-07 16:01
And for inspiration and how much you should practice, listen to Robert Springs "warmup" which contains (about half way through) some circular breathing practice followed by some amazing single & multiple tonguing practice: enjoy and prepare to be humble.........lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8Z1y7E7_04
Post Edited (2008-12-07 16:20)
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-12-11 15:28
Having never mastered the art of double tonguing, a question:
As in single tonguing, the tip of the tongue only hits the reed once during "ta-ka" or "ti-ki" right? On the second syllable, the back of the tongue is being released from the back of the rook of the mouth, thus giving the extra sound...if that makes sense. That is how I perceive it.
Am I on the right track here? Is my question addressed in the Clark Fobes article, sited above?
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2008-12-11 15:54
Claire,
This is a confusing post because different things are being called "double tongue".
The article that GBK links, and which this site calls "double tonguing", is not what is generally known as double tonguing. It is sometimes called "on the reed" double tonguing. My clarinet professor in college called it "flip tonguing".
As for the syllable in the Fobes article - it is as you state - "ka" is produced with the tongue against the roof of the mouth. However, his "discovery", made in the 1990s, is either very late, or flat out plagiarism. Bernard Garfield published articles about what Fobes calls "synthetic" tonguing over a quarter century ago. One of the pieces Garfield focused on was the Beethoven 4 excerpt, with the exact same tonguing pattern that Fobes pretends in his article is something new.
I double tongue using tu-ku. It takes a long time to learn, but is well worth the effort. The low register can be mastered in months. The clarion might take years, and the altissimo register may never come. Still, with work, any clarinetist can have nearly unlimited tongue speed up to a high C, which covers most situations.
Post Edited (2008-12-11 15:56)
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Author: William
Date: 2008-12-11 17:03
"and the altissimo register may never come."
That is exactly why John Bruce-Yeh told me he uses the flip tonguing method instead. It works well in all registers--even those "altissimo" notes respond cleanly the first time you try it. Just takes a lot of time to coordinate the flip with your fingers. For me, the ta-ka method is easier to learn, but that is maybe because I first perfected it playing "Bugler's Holiday" on the trumpet.
I do find the ta-ka method is only a problem on the A & Bb soprano clarinet. On all my other clarinets--effer, C & bass--and on my saxphones, the ta-ka works well in all registers. Why it remains a prob. for the regular clarinets is a mystery to me.
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-12-12 12:24
It is indeed difficult to illustrate something that is going on inside a place that can't been seen, conventionally.
For me, the foggy part is which part of the tongue is touching the roof of the mouth. Is there a tonguing method, flip or double, in which the tongue doesn't actually touch the reed? I had always imagined the tip of the tongue releasing from the reed being the "ta" part of the "ta-ka" method, with the "ka" being the rebound, let's say.
I'm a visual learner and my college instructor had a hard time describing things like an open throat and an arched tongue.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-12-12 13:37
JessKateDD states:
"As for the syllable in the Fobes article - it is as you state - "ka" is produced with the tongue against the roof of the mouth. However, his "discovery", made in the 1990s, is either very late, or flat out plagiarism. "
Wow, that is a very strong claim. I would be hesitant to ever charge someone with plagiarism publicly unless I had real proof.
Clark is a very bright, honest guy with a very inquisitive mind.
I would suppose that often more than one person can sometimes come to similar conclusions when working out a problem.
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Author: JessKateDD
Date: 2008-12-12 18:15
Ed,
It is not a "very strong claim" at all. There are 2 possibilities - 1) Fobes independently figured this out over a decade after Garfield published his results, making him "late", or 2) he plagiarized. Can you think of a third possibility? Incidentally, as a holder of a doctorate degree myself, were I to publish an article claiming a discovery that had already been published by a prominent member of my field in recognized journals, I would receive no benefit of the doubt whatsoever. If anything, my admitting two possibilities is charitable.
Whatever the case, there was nothing original in his article, with the exception that Garfield's method of multiple tonguing was being transferred from bassoon to clarinet.
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