 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: bluemoose
Date: 2008-12-10 03:44
Worst of times meaning the middle of finals/band dress rehearsal/juries week at college.
I apologize in advance for my shoddy knowledge of correct mechanical terminology. Generally I take the instrument to the repair shop and say "this (pad/key/cork/etc.) is wonky" and things get better.
I just had my R13 Bflat clarinet repaired over Thanksgiving break (replaced 3 pads, adjusted crows feet) and it was playing beautifully through this Sunday. I played an orchestra concert Saturday, subbed in a rehearsal Sunday morning, and took a break Monday to catch up on studying.
Tonight I go to practice and suddenly things are not going well. Throat F-sharp is weak, fuzzy, "gargle-y" like it wants to squeak but can't quite make it, and all around yucky. The F a half step below generally sounds better but is now all of a sudden super easy to overblow up to high C. The surrounding throat tones are also not so great but it's this new F/Fsharp development that's got me worried.
My theories are:
1. The newly-replaced pad that sits under the A key and closes with F-sharp has come loose and is leaking. Seems to be the easiest solution, but I can't feel or hear any air escaping, and when I maneuver the mouthpiece so I can play and push down that key with my finger to try to plug the leak for a second, nothing changes.
2. There's something wrong with the F thumb hole tubing. I've occasionally had problems with water creating an inner "bubble" that's generally fixed by just swabbing out the clarinet, but this time the warbly-ness won't go away and seems to be coming from this general area, as much as I can surmise. I have no idea what would cause there to be a problem here, but there might be.
3. The cork pad on my register key is leaking. Maybe?
4. My barrel is leaking or has finally kicked the bucket. I need to get the cork replaced on the top tenon because the barrel just barely doesn't fit snugly anymore, but maybe I've waited too long and things have gotten out of control. I don't think this is likely, because I tried it with my A clarinet barrel, which does fit, and the problem was still there.
5. I've inadvertently bent a key somewhere, somehow. Can't see it, but you never know.
6. I've irreparably damaged the instrument by leaving it in a cold car for 5 hours while I worked on Sunday. I otherwise never do this, but I weighed the risks of the clarinet being cold in the car against possible messiness/damage in an ice cream store, and the car won.
7. It's all in my head and I'm just having an end of semester panic. However, I don't think this is the case, since my A clarinet plays fine on the same mouthpiece, same reed.
Normally I'd just head over to the repair shop, or if I had no time, wait until my lesson and see what my teacher can do, but I have no more lessons until juries, and I have 5 hour rehearsals all the rest of the week leading up the the band/wind ensemble concert on Saturday, so my time is very limited. I have someone I can ask in rehearsal tomorrow to take a look at it, but for now any friendly advice or hypotheses will be much appreciated.
Murphy's Law is great, isn't it?
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Author: clarinetguy ★2017
Date: 2008-12-10 04:33
I've done some repair work on student clarinets, but I'm not really an expert.
I'm wondering if the problem is the pad just under the A key. Is the pad in solidly, or does it seem loose? Was this one of the pads that was replaced? There is a possibility that the repair shop put in a pad that was too thick, and it's also possible that it wasn't seated properly. A loose pad or an improperly seated pad there can create a lot of problems.
How's the intonation of the F and G? If these notes are now tuning a little flat, I would bet that this pad is the culprit.
I don't think you did any major lasting damage leaving it in a cold car, but I wonder if the the cold caused the glue holding in one or more of the pads to become brittle. I'd check over the clarinet to make sure all of the pads are in firmly.
It sounds like you have a busy week ahead of you, but perhaps you can contact your teacher. If the problem is what I suspect it might be, I think your teacher can probably do a quick repair job for you.
Post Edited (2008-12-10 04:35)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-12-10 05:09
First thing I would check is whether pressing the F# ring lifts one of the right side trill keys, most likely the Bb trill key (second from top). Does it look like it's even close to being lifted? It is possible that because of the lack of contra for this note you press harder when playing F# and only then it lifts it.
Do you know how to check that the joint seals? Start with the upper joint and barrel connected to it. Block the bottom with your right hand, close all the holes with your left hand (like playing a C), then make a seal with your lips against the barrel end, puff your cheeks, and squeeze the air into the clarinet with your cheeks. Make sure your fingers completely block the holes and no air is coming out between them, and don't press them harder than you would when playing. You should feel a lot of resistant and the air shouldn't come out. If you feel the air coming out, check again with the barrel off. It's most likely from a key but worth checking this way to make sure it's not from the barrel or the connection.
If you feel an air leak, try again but press all the keys (rings) hard, to see if that helps. If it does, the problem is one of the open pads not sealing. If it doesn't, try to see if you can hear where the leak is coming from. Have another person press harder on closed keys while you test for a leak to see if that stops it.
By the way, if the problem is the trill key lifting that I mentioned in the beginning, then it's possible that the joint would seal with a normal light pressure of your fingerings, and then leak when you press hard.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-12-10 10:46
It doesn't hurt to check if there's somethng you left in the bell....or bore.
Bob Draznik
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-12-10 12:28
What about the rest of the notes? Low E to thumb F?
From what you say, I suspect that the pad on the second ring key (left hand middle finger) is partly or totally closed- possibly a spring problem.
Does the low C sound ok? If not, maybe there is something under the cork stopper on the lower joint key as this would also bring the upper joint 2nd ring key down.
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2008-12-10 14:22
It makes a big difference whether the response gets progressively worse as you play a descending scale below the F-sharp or the problem only involves the F-sharp and F you mentioned. A loose pad or one whose skin covering is torn in the pad cup just *below* the first ring or even a piece of dirt in the tone hole would cause the kind of gurgling on F-sharp that you describe, although it should cause the same thing on F and E as well. If the pad basically seals decently, once you have it closed from D downward (it closes with the the left hand second ring) the problem would seem to disappear.
If it's an air leak around any of the pads above the first left hand ring (the F-sharp key) or thumb ring, the instability and poor response would get worse the lower you play. Leaks that high on the top joint tend to disable the entire instrument. Likewise a too loose fit between the barrel and the top tenon. So, as I said at the start, what you're looking for depends very much on how the notes play as you go downward.
By the way, a slightly different way that I prefer to check for leaks is to seal off the bottom of the joint and the open tone holes as clarnibass suggested, but pucker your lips *into* the top tenon and try to suck the air *out* of the joint. If you can achieve a strong suction that holds more or less indefinitely (more than a few seconds), things are sealing well. If you can't get a suction at all or it lets go within a few seconds, air is getting in somewhere. I wouldn't really recommend the way my first repair guy used to do it (50 years ago) - he would take a big drag on a cigarette, close the end and the holes and then blow smoke into the clarinet. It had the advantage of showing quite clearly most of the time where the leak was. It had the disadvantage that the instrument reeked of cigarette smoke for days afterward.
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Author: 78s2CD
Date: 2008-12-12 05:00
Theory 3 - Plug the bottom end of the left hand section, close all finger holes and blow into the top end. This will disclose any major leaks, including the register key.
Theory 4 - Wrap a strip of paper around the cork and install the barrel. If the problem goes away, the tenon cork needs to be replaced.
James C. Lockwood
Rio Rico AZ
"I play a little clarinet"
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-12 07:36
"1. The newly-replaced pad that sits under the A key and closes with F-sharp has come loose and is leaking."
With that key open, gently nudge the pad with your fingernail. If it is loose, you will see it move, or it will fall out.
When you do the blowing test that Clarnibass suggested, plug the bottom end of the clarinet section with a cork if you can find one that fits. That leaves your right hand free to explore pressing on the key cups to check if the noise of a leak goes away (while you are blowing), i.e. you don't need a second person.
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