 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: stebinus
Date: 2008-12-08 13:25
I want to get a complete set of stoppers for Bb, A, C, Eb clarinets for all the tone holes and lower tenons. Anyone know of a good source?
Post Edited (2008-12-08 13:27)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-12-08 14:57
Try instrument repair suppliers like Ferree's, Allied, etc. they might have it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-12-08 15:02
There's always Blu-Tack.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-12-08 16:53
Craft stores and hobby shops often sell packs of assorted-size cork stoppers; also scientific supply houses (e.g. Fisher Scientific).
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-12-08 16:54
Off hand I guess I wonder why you want/need stoppers for the tone holes. I use rubber stoppers for section end holes and I get them at a hardware store. I have found that cork stoppers leak....at least the ones I used did. My rubber ones don't leak.
Bob Draznik
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2008-12-08 18:05
JL Smith has the rubber stoppers in sets for clarinets
I prefer rubber versus cork stoppers - same problem Bob had.
Also, you can get many sizes for Bb & A just by visiting a local ACE hardware store. My local ones didn't have the sizes for the speaker vent but all others they had the size for.
==========
Stephen Sklar
My YouTube Channel of Clarinet Information
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2008-12-08 21:51
BobD,
There are those frustrating times when you're absolutely sure that you did a great job repadding a clarinet but it still leaks. At this point I use a set of corks and little rubber stoppers to plug the tone holes one at a time to see if I missed something, usually I get all the way to every tone hole is plugged and it still leaks. Then I put some water in the bore, seal up everything and blow a bit, the water will typically come out a crack or most often it will come out between a tone hole plug and the body.
Piccolos are a pretty fair pain too so I use small plugs to help with repairs on them too. They can come in right handy!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-09 10:51
Tip:
when using a stopper in the lower end of the lower section, reverse it. Then it it seals some distance inside the bore, and does not put splitting forces on the vulnerable open end of the tenon.
I use Bob's water trick too, but with the pads on. Sometimes the leak is past a blemish in the tone hole edge, or through a piece of porous pad membrane. (If the pad gets soggy, that is why. Squeeze the wet pad and water will ooze out.)
Using plugs does not pick up these two faults.
BTW I do the test a little differently from Bob. I fill the clarinet with water, blow for a few seconds to fill the leak with water, then empty the water out, and blow again. Then if I cannot see where the remaining water is leaking out, I will soon hear and see air bubbles in the still-wet area.
After such a wet test, I use compressed air to quickly dry any wet areas.
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Author: huff n' puff
Date: 2008-12-09 11:11
Hi, stebinus......
If I am having trouble with leaky pads, the first thing that reach for is my home-made "torch bulb soldered to a length of twin cable and connected to a low volt power supply or suitable battery" device. Just shove this up the bore and you will soon see where the leaks are.
I thought everyone did this!.............. H&P
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Author: stebinus
Date: 2008-12-09 11:25
Yes I've got one. Very funky 12 volt came out of an old stereo and connected to an AC/DC adapter. I'll have to put it back into service.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-12-09 13:42
I've used soapy water too as the bubbles are easier to see.
Bob Draznik
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2008-12-09 14:13
A technique that has worked well for me uses painter's low tack masking tape- specifically the 3M Scotch Blue Painter's tape. If I suspect that a particular tone hole leaks, I just cover it with a small square of tape- if the problem goes away, you have quickly identified the leaky tone hole. Works great on saxes, clarinets and most woodwinds, especially on the small trill keys and sax palm keys. The blue tape doesn't leave any sticky residue; in fact it sometimes removes unwanted gunk from the tone hole edge. I'm surprised that I haven't heard of this trick before on any of the repair forums- maybe I have invented something!
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-10 10:59
"If I am having trouble with leaky pads, the first thing that reach for is my home-made "torch bulb soldered to a length of twin cable and connected to a low volt power supply or suitable battery" device. Just shove this up the bore and you will soon see where the leaks are.
I thought everyone did this!.............. H&P"
Very few techs use leak lights for clarinets. Mainly just for saxes. Far too unreliable.
1. It is a very dark place inside a clarinet, so very little light gets to the pad end of a tone hole, moving at an angle where it might escape under a pad. Certainly not enough light for good diagnosis.
2. Clarinet pads are typically translucent, so light shining through the pad is misleading. (And this is the reason they are not normally used for flutes either.)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-12-10 13:57
Another reason to use leather pads on clarinets, Gordon -- makes the use of a leak light feasible.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-10 20:27
I don't think so, especially for the deep, narrow holes in the the upper section of a soprano clarinet. See reason 1 in my previous post.
Ever used an ordinary torch in a totally black cave with dark, light absorbing walls? There is almost no light reflection so very little light gets anywhere.
Post Edited (2009-04-10 15:39)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-12-10 21:03
True, Gordon, but I can think of only two toneholes on a clarinet (with opaque pads!) which are too deep for a leaklight, namely the small vent hole under the throat "A", and the register key tube. I've repadded literally dozens of clarinets with leather pads and use a leak light extensively.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-10 21:20
We can each speak only from our own experience.
I find within reason, that even with saxes, the dimmer the light from the leak light, localised into the tone hole, and the more light that surrounds the rest of the instrument, the more small leaks I am likely to miss.
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-12-11 03:22
I agree with that, Gordon, and so rather than using a commercial leak light I made one using a miniature 12V automotive light bulb (rather bright) which seems to work pretty well.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-11 03:57
Ah. That is a far cry from the string lights that seem now to be associated with leak testing. And far more localised light than the fluoro lights that some technicians use. I think we're on the same planet. :-)
But you would surely have to centre the light exactly under each tone hole to get enough light up it. It still seems a bit iffy to me, in the reliability stakes. But I guess if it works for you...
Post Edited (2008-12-11 08:53)
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Author: huff n' puff
Date: 2008-12-11 10:07
Hi, Gordon........ you had me worried with your reply re lights.
So much that I decided to check last night on the upper joint of my clarinet. The instrument plays so well that I had no reason to check it out before, but there it was........ a bright thin slit of light on one side of the Eb pad (the one operated by the middle finger of the LH).
My hi-tech kit consists of a 3v torch bulb connected to a power supply or battery and since it is a concentrated source it can be easily placed to give the best results. Working in a dark environment also helps. The slight translucency of the pads is no problem.
This tone hole is as small and deep as there is on a clarinet, but it works fine........ and no filling the clarinet with water!
Thanks, Gordon for giving me another job to while away the long dark winter nights (here)................ H&P
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-12-11 12:32
Sometimes when I test sealing, I use a rubber glove so that there is no air escaping out the grains of my fingerprint.
I have a set of the rubber stoppers from JL Smith and they are not as useful as I had hoped. I always use the big ones for the ends of the joint, but the smaller ones do not leave the box often.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-11 21:46
"The instrument plays so well that I had no reason to check it out before, but there it was........ a bright thin slit of light on one side of the Eb pad ... This tone hole is as small and deep as there is on a clarinet, but it works fine........ and no filling the clarinet with water!"
You seem to have misunderstood me, huff n' puff. If there is a bright sliver of light there, it would have been easily located to that pad by a few-second pressure test (which I prefer to suction), and then accurately located to that part of the pad with a few-second check with a feeler.
There is no way I would be using the water test I described for a leak that huge. I use it to locate only the leaks that cannot be located by pressure testing or feeler testing. (And IMO, if pressure and feeler testing on a clarinet do not detect and locate a leak, then light doesn't have a show of detecting it.)
Post Edited (2008-12-11 21:47)
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Author: huff n' puff
Date: 2008-12-12 10:09
Hi, Gordon........ no, it was a minute leak.... so small that I didn't know it was there, and I mentioned it solely to point out the ability of the torch bulb to show up the smallest gap instantly. I would still recommend it to anyone as a serious technique......... plus, now that I remember, it shows very clearly the effect of varying the finger pressure on the pad.
That is probably why I was unaware of the leak in the rough and tumble of playing. The clarinet is due a complete service soon, and I am curious to see whether the re-setting of this pad makes a significant difference to it's performance. ............. H&P
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-13 02:00
Ah. But did the light show up the other gaps that it did not show up, i.e. the ones smaller than "the smallest"? Hmmm.
Post Edited (2008-12-13 02:00)
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Author: huff n' puff
Date: 2008-12-13 14:49
Gordon...... why do I get the impression that you are trying to convert me? Hmmmmmmmmmm....... H&P.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-13 19:30
It's the wee small voice of experience with the leaks that do not show up as easily as you seem to have experienced.
An example is where there is more-than-usual friction in a pivot, so that the spring closes a pad to contact the entire rim of the tone hole, (so no light would shine through) but does not exert enough pressure to adequately seal.
This also happens when a throat A key spring is rusty at the 'slider', or the slider is rusty, or there is no slider and there is a worn groove in the timber with a tiny wall at the end of it which restricts the siding movement of the spring.
Yet another example is when a pad touches the tone hole all around the edge, but exerts enough pressure to seal over only part of that circumference.
A feeler, in sensitive, experienced hands, picks up these. A light cannot.
I guess it is for these reasons that very few technicians use a leak light on clarinets, oboes and flutes. I am not alone.
Of course neither picks up a very small split across a tone hole (say 0.0002" wide), or a porous pad membrane, or slightly rough tone hole edge under a firm-material pad, or a a leak around a poorly-glued tone hole chimney, or around the throat Bb or thumb tone hole inserts, or around another metal part that was poorly installed (eg a thumb rest screw that was drilled too deep.)
Post Edited (2009-04-10 15:46)
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Author: huff n' puff
Date: 2008-12-15 13:27
Wee, Gordon?......... wee?
Are you actually an ex-pat Scottie-dawg who couldn't stand the bracing Scottish climate?
Also....... was it yourself that suggested shoving a cork into a piece of metal tubing in order to shave off small thin slices? ...... read it recently, but can't find it again. Haven't tried it yet, but it seems a good plan. Wondering whether a blade ground on one side would be better than on both sides.
Overhaul imminent, so will be trying this......... H&P
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-12-17 09:59
"wee"
I was once a classroom teacher, teaching alongside a Scottish teacher, and here, the well-settled Scottish are often more Scottish than the Scottish! Some stuff rubbed off on me.
But being 1/4 Scottish (mainly in blood) I have Makgill ancestry, I believe from Achterada and Achtermachty - excuse the spelling - and documented family tree back to the likes of James 1, Robert the Bruce, William the Conqueror, Emperor Charlemagne, Alfred the Great.
Not that that has much influence in my life other than the odd "wee" that pops out, and a little affinity with the bag pipes. :-)
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Author: tromnek
Date: 2009-04-10 01:15
I'm new to woodwind (pads) repair.
Why don't we use smoke? It seems that it would be
really easy on leaks both big and small.
Can you give me the pros and cons please?
Ken Mort
Brooklyn, NY
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2009-04-10 01:19
Actually a pad can sit just enough not to work well and still stop smoke. Placement of pads is not so easy as one would hope...
David Dow
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2009-04-10 04:35
From the repairer's perspective, I would not want to subject myself to smoke (possible cancer) for any customer. From the customer's side, I would not want to pay for repair that smells like an ashtray.
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Author: BobD
Date: 2009-04-10 12:07
Ah, sky, nobody gets out of here alive and, even worse, the smoke detectives would probably cart you off to the slammer.
Ken, you might benefit from reading all the prior comments to this ancient post.
Bob Draznik
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Author: tromnek
Date: 2009-04-14 01:52
I read this whole thread and many others.
I just don't see much on this old method.
I'm figuring that there are many ways to get a colored gas
and I'm surprised that nothing has evolved beyond
the traditional tobacco method.
I figured I'm probably missing something that those
with leak experience see as obvious.
tia,
ken
Ken Mort
Brooklyn, NY
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