 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Steph
Date: 2000-10-06 19:25
Hi everyone! I recently purchased a used wooden buffet clarinet and with it in the case came selmer bore oil. I have been playing for 8 years and have never even heard of this stuff. I think you are supposed to rinse it through or something every so often. If anyone can help me out with this stuff, please Email me ! Thanks!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-10-06 19:38
We have discussed this several times here, Search the Phorum, for some info. I use bore oil, sparingly, maybe once or twice a year, if the wood looks dry, and/or if the bore needs a bit of cleaning. It needs a day or so to soak in, so plan ahead!!, it can be messy! Some prefer almond oil to the other types. Don
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-10-06 21:22
You do *NOT* rinse it through the clarinet. You will ruin the pads. Instead you apply it sparingly to a swab and draw the swab through the bore.
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-06 21:35
Steph, Dee is right. A drop or two goes a LONG way. Just try putting a couple drops on a swab, and run it through the clarinet without the mouthpiece. It is usually better to run it through several times to oil the bore than to put too much on. The swab for oil should not be used as a regular swab afterward. A swab doesn't do much good if it repels water. You should oil it just enough to get a nice shine in the bore when you look through it near a light. If you don't want to try it yourself, a repair tech could probably show you how. The cost would probably minimal, if anything at all. Either way it is better than getting oil on the pads and paying for a repad. Good luck. -- Nate Zeien
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-10-07 00:06
I use an old "fuzzy" swab simular to a pad saver to apply the oil. Start with the barrel first. It has the small bore and if by chance you have too much oil on the swab, it will squeeze off into the sockets. It also has no pads to ruin.
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-10-07 00:47
Leblanc sells a Kit to oil the bore & it has a bore wand that copes with it. Not that you need it, a swab should be fine. Check out the Doctor, a new Sneezy sponsor. I just tried his bore oil/treatment & liked the results! The Doctor is L. Omar Henderson, Ph.D. Omar is very helpful. He also excplained to me that his oil will not harm the pads. However, I think you can avoid getting oil on the pas if one is careful. Good luck. mw
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Author: Susan
Date: 2000-10-07 01:16
I also use a "fuzzy" swab to apply bore oil. I believe the fuzz is wool as it smells like it. It came with the clarinet when purchased new. A bottle of bore oil lasts for many many years. Only a few drops are needed. I only oil twice a year usually in the winter months.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2000-10-07 02:39
This is not a commercial plug but check out the ingredients on the bottle of bore oil before you buy it - most will say "mineral oil" - I call it "the most expensive baby oil on the planet". Mineral oil will indeed waterproof your bore but this long chain petroleum product will also block the pores and fine structure of the wood and allow no moisture exchange - a certain moisture content is needed for the resonant qualities of a wooden instrument. When some of the oil wears away there can be excess moisture absorption in that area - right next to areas that are waterproofed (dry) which is an ideal situation for potential cracking. I favor natural oils (proven over the years to preserve fine wood) with antioxidants (oxidized oil can also harm wood). Natural oils allow controlled and even moisture absorption throughout the surface of the wood in the bore. A previous comment indicated that these natural oils will not harm pads (petroleum products will) - this is true but extensive testing on this has not been done so it is best to avoid soaking your pads with any bore treatment. Only a little bit of oil is needed. Natural oils should be applied a little more frequently - about 4 times a year IMHO.
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Author: Todd
Date: 2000-10-08 06:59
I''ve had my Buffet R-13 since 1977. I've never oiled it and never had a crack or problem with it. My previous teacher told me not to oil my clarinet and present one says the same thing. I spoke with another clarinetist. She said she oiled hers once and would never do it again.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2000-10-08 18:56
There seems to be a great diversity of opinion on oiling. Check back for previous threads on the subject. The wood in your new R-13 was soaked in oil by Buffet prior to your getting it and most master technicians will clean and oil bores during refurbishing. You only have to think of the hostile environment within the bore - warm, moist air, and condensed moisture standing for hours on the wood to seriously consider protecting the wood in some way. Once the oil from the factory has worn away - washed away - in the top millimeter or so of the wood surface it can absorb excess amounts of water and swell. Back to my previous comments that areas of wet wood next to areas of dry wood "can" promote cracks. I'll give you the old saying - there are three types of clarinets ... one that will crack no matter what you do, the second may crack under stressful conditions (cold, heat, water, dryness), and the third is so stable that it will never crack. Check for the tatoo inside your bore to tell you which one you have -- or protect it in hopes that you have a number 2 or 3. Again, I prefer natural oil treatments over the petroleum based mineral oil sold by many (it may say mineral oil or if does not give ingredients and it is crystal clear it is still probably 90%+ mineral oil). Natural oils have been used for centuries to protect and nourish fine wood - including some ebony artifacts that I have seen that are >1500 years old and still appear in beautiful condition). Get as much information as you can and then decide for yourself, there is a lot of voodo magic and old wife's tales not based on science out there.
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-08 19:24
Mr. Henderson, I have a few questions for you. First, can bore oil made of petroleum distillates break down the wood, and how long would it take? Is this going to be anything that will have any noticeable effect this century? Also, you make a good point for natural oils, but do they decompose over time? I know that mineral oil is often used for soapstone (I think that's the stone they use) countertops, rather than natural oils, because the natural oils can go rancid. Also, how long does the natural oil last in comparison to the petroleum based oil? Can these two be mixed together? For example, on a clarinet with petroleum based oil. Or, do they act like oil and water, and not mix? Finally, has there been any research done on the long term effects of using natural bore oil on clarinets? Just wondering. Thanks. -- Nate Zeien
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2000-10-08 22:05
Dear Nate - had to print out your questions so that I could try and get all of them.
Well, not in order but - Mineral oil indeed is a petroleum product and does not come from rocks (and denotes just a fraction taken off the distillation column when crude oil is refined) the viscosity varies with the chain length, the heavier variety is longer chain lenght and the lighter has a smaller hydrocarbon chain length (although a lot longer than almost all natural oils). About how long it would take to destroy a good piece of clarinet wood - I do not know exactly but oil soaked floors in mills in New England had to be replaced about every twenty years - I would be more concerned about changes in the tonal qualities of the wood long before that. Natural oils should be coupled with long acting antioxidants so that they do not oxidize (go rancid). Emulsifiers should be used if two natural oils are mixed together because although they form a stable emulsion in the bottle, the wood acts like a wick and can cause oils of two different compositions (either chain length or side chain composition to separate within the micro-layers of the wood. (Hope this is not sounding like a chemistry lesson and too boring)
Natural oils for the most part should not be mixed with petroleum based oils. As far as how long natural oils last - I have been fortunate to travel around the world and contact museum conservators and wood restoration experts and several common threads and formulations are heard over and over again - use natural oils to preserve wood. They preserve the cellulose and fine pore structure of wood and allow controlled moisture entry and egress from the wood (long chain petroleum hydrocarbons clog these micropores and do not allow moisture exchange). My secret sources are conservators of wood artifacts in churches and cathedrals that have been maintained in almost perfect condition for 1000 years - they have used natural oil formulations almost unchanged and documented for the past 500 years. Natural oils (personal communication) are used to prepare the wood used in today's most expensive clarinets - not petroleum based oils. I do not have all the answers but can only draw correlations which I believe are valid. Sorry to be so long winded!
The Doctor
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-09 00:27
Mr. Henderson, thanks for answering my questions so well. I have couple more for you. What should be done if you have a clarinet with petroleum bore oil used, and does Buffet use natural or petrol oil for their new R-13's? Thanks again. -- Nate Zeien
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2000-10-09 02:20
Nate - I can not speak for Buffet but the word on the street (from people that have visited the factory - or who have a cousin that works there) is that Buffet uses natural oil to soak the wood for new R-13's. I do not know what or if they sell aftermarket bore oil but other big names (initials S & Y) sell a heavy mineral oil bore oil on the street. I do not know why! (it has a huge mark up I guess) and the other generic products by the chain stores mimic the mineral oil lemming mentality). About applying natural oil after already using petroleum products - it's OK at your next scheduled oil change (bore treatment time). Enough of the petroleum has worn off (it does not soak in as deeply as natural oils) from swabbing that the natural oil will enter the wood and after enough treatments the petroleum oil should be displaced by the natural oil. I guage my next bore treatment time by shining a light in the top of the first tenon (where the barrel attaches) and if the wood is redish brown rather that deep dark brown to black and is no longer shiny then I use my natural oil formulation at that time - all of this depends on how much you play your own horn. Some are worried that it may change the "sound" but I have not heard of changes from any of my customers and from personal experience with my own Buffet horn it has not changed anything and I am cursed - blessed with a tonal ear. As I mentioned before, you should gather all the hard data that you can - hopefully not hear-say or wife's tales - then make your own decision.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-10-09 17:01
You've got me jumping in, LOH ! Re: terminology, Shouldn't we add to "natural oils" the words "from wood or other vegetable sources" p. e.almond, olive etc? Being a graduate of the petroleum industry, I interpret "mineral" as also being "natural, via its occurence" UNLESS its a olefin [or other] synthetic polymer , man made. This may just be picky, as most of us know what is meant, but felt I had to throw it in. I believe in the previous threads we had some listing of the preferred bore oils by source, do you have them in mind? TKS, Don
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Author: Mark Charette, Webmaster
Date: 2000-10-09 17:22
Don Berger wrote:
>
> I believe in the previous threads we had some listing of
> the preferred bore oils by source, do you have them in mind?
> TKS, Don
Don,
As Omar is a sponsor of Sneezy.Org <b>and</b> has a bore oil business it's going to be hard for him to answer without "crossing the boundaries" I've set for the BBoard. This is one of the hardest parts of moderating - when does information become an advertisement?
To all - feel free to email Omar or visit his site at http://www.doctorsprod.com/ but in the interests of fairness we need to keep towards the middle in this. Omar's done an admirable job in not pushing his product and in reminding people to check all the facts.
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Author: Micaela
Date: 2000-10-09 18:07
I always stick wax paper under all my pads before I use bore oil. Is this not necessary? I oil about twice a year and I have a 50s R13 with no cracks.
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-10-09 18:20
Micaela, it certainly doesn't hurt anything. It is not an entirely fool-proof method, though. Oil can get on to the tone holes, where the pads are seated, and as soon as the waxed paper is removed, you get oil on the pads. Your best bet is to use the oil sparingly, and run it through a few times. -- Nate Zeien
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Author: mark weinstein
Date: 2000-10-10 00:24
Micaela, that sounds like a very good precautionary measure. There are other ways that the oil might get on the pads, like an accident when you were handling a bottle of oil or a container (put your clarinet down on a table, etc --- never a good idea, but the best plans are often ....).
I would think that using Plastic in some form would be better. It seems to me that I have seen wax paper which appears to have let fluid through (e.g. observed at lunch time!) Why not use somehting like a small Baggie, etc. ?
Good idea! were you a (Boy -Girl) Scout? : - )
mw
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