 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: otaylor09
Date: 2008-12-05 17:59
Hi
I've been playing the clarinet quite a while and would quite like to teach myself a bit of sax as many clarinettists are expected to be general woodwind players.
I'm from the U.K and wondered if anyone had any tips about teaching yourself the saxophone and the best place to buy a cheap but decent instrument.
Thanks.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-12-05 19:42
Contact a local repair shop and see if they have any suggestions. Often they come across decent instruments for sale or at least will have a suggestion for you.
Consider also taking a couple (at least) of lessons so that you don't play the Sax like a Clarinet player.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-12-05 19:58
I always heard that second hand Yamaha saxophones are excellent value for money. I have a very old Yamaha 23 that I almost never touch but a saxophonist that plays in a quartet here reckoned it was great - albeit with the bottom two pads needing to be replaced!
I've also heard good reviews about the Hanson saxophones. They make their own clarinets, but import the sax parts from Taiwan and set them up. The advantage of Hanson is the guarantee, free servicing and customer care which makes their competitors look like south London used car salesmen! ;-)
http://www.saxophonesdirect.com/Home.html
http://www.hansonclarinets.com/Hanson_clarinets/Home.html
You can also ask here:
http://www.saxontheweb.net/
Steve
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Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-12-05 21:14
I really do hope that these chinese instruments are as good as they say, but the real test is not in the initial playing, but in how they perform over time.
The own brand (chinese) oboe sold by johnpacker.co.uk also has a great review. But as I and others discovered, although the oboe does indeed sound and perform well when first set up, the poor quality of the keywork, rods and screws means that the problems only become apparent after a few months. At that point, it becomes clear that the quality is so bad that it's impossible to adjust. Screws don't turn or just fall out. Weird key heights require bizzare thick pads etc.
I read this: ...."and just recently I had the opportunity of examining a small batch of horns fresh off the production line.
The quality was frankly astounding."
What I'd really like to read is a review of one of these chinese instruments that's been played for a year or so.
Steve
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-12-05 21:29
What? You expect them to last that long? I've tried the Chinese saxes and the tuning is dreadful - not suitable for anyone to learn on as the 8ves are so wide. As far as the oboe I tried, I couldn't find anything good to comment on.
The best thing is to look for a used Yamaha alto in good working order, doesn't matter what model as they're all good (if not excellent), but you will have a sax that will last you for ages. Even if you don't get on with it, you can always get your money back if you decide to sell it on as there will be plenty of people wanting Yamaha saxes.
If you can't find a Yamaha, look for a Jupiter 700 series - either to buy, rent or rent-to-buy. See if you can get a Yamaha 4C mouthpiece for this - they're good inexpensive mouthpieces and far better than a lot of other plastic mouthpieces.
Do find a sax specialist teacher as the embouchure is different to clarinet - not only is it easier to acquire, but on saxes you don't tighten up as you would on clarinet when you go up.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-12-05 21:32)
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-12-05 21:40
"What I'd really like to read is a review of one of these chinese instruments that's been played for a year or so."
I agree. But bear in mind that the review I linked to is by a respected and knowledgeable technician. He is capable, if anyone is, of judging whether the instrument is likely to fall apart in a few months. Other reviews on his site demonstrate that he is capable of damning criticism when he thinks it justified.
If I understand his review, he believes that these instruments will last a few years; long enough to take a beginner to the stage at which he will want an upgrade. At the stage, the instrument will need a service, but a service will not be economic and the instrument will be thrown away. This may offend the environmentally-minded, but from an economic view it may still make a lot of sense.
I posted this link as a service to the OP; I'm not in a position to say whether or not these Chinese saxes are worth the money.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-12-05 21:53
> At the stage, the instrument will need a service, but a service will not be
> economic and the instrument will be thrown away. This may offend the
> environmentally-minded, but from an economic view it may still make a lot
> of sense.
<shudder>
That's a rather short-sighted view. If you invest say $300 more you may get something that actually can be serviced, and you protect your initial investment better.
--
Ben
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-12-06 03:21
>> What? You expect them to last that long? I've tried the
>> Chinese saxes and the tuning is dreadful - not suitable
>> for anyone to learn on as the 8ves are so wide.
I've tried those, but have you tried a Walstein which several (supposedly?) good players recommend...?
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2008-12-06 03:24
I have a Spenser alto sax which was made in Taiwan. I've had it for a number of years and just recently had it repadded so I could start playing it again. The mouthpiece is a Yanagasawa which really makes the horn sound good. I like this particular sax because it is light and has a very good feel. I don't remember what I paid for it.
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Author: Stephen Howard
Date: 2008-12-06 08:41
If you want to see reviews of Chinese horns that have been in use for a year, check out my reviews of the Gear4music alto and bari and the Walstein tenor.
The Walstein tenor in particular gets a rough ride - it lives in the boot of my car, so I always have a horn handy should I chance upon an impromptu gig.
The Largo tenor ( also reviewed ) will need another 6 months before it's been in use for a year - but it's showing no signs of stopping. I've been using it as a 'courtesy horn' - lending it out to players who need a horn for a gig while their main horn is in for servicing. The feedback has been very good indeed.
I have a number of clients who play Ultra-Cheap Chinese horns, some are even professional players ( Pete Effamy uses an Academy soprano, for example...and Pete Thomas has even recorded with a Chinese horn ).
There's no reason why these horns should suddenly and mysteriously implode after a year - the body brass and build is more than adequate and the keys are quite often a great deal stronger than those fitted to many a more respectable horn.
A proper setup is worthwhile, but beyond that I don't find these instruments need any more servicing than any other student horn.
A decent example is easily as good as a Jupiter 700 series, and actually better in terms of response and tone ( and price ).
As regards tuning - the only problems I've encountered are with some curved sopranos ( and, until recently, on sopraninos ).
If anyone has any brand names of out of tune saxes they'd like to share I'd be more than happy to keep a note of them, and as and when examples turn up in the workshop I'll check them out ( I might well have seen such brands already - not every horn I see gets formally reviewed ).
As far as the OP's request goes - you'd be hard put to beat a Yamaha if your budget can run to it ( a used 21 or 23 series would be a good bet ), but there's little point in buying a new Jupiter these days ( avoid the 500 series at all costs ).
An Academy Scholarship would be just as good, a Walstein considerably better. I can also recommend the Largo ( they do a number of models - I reviewed the cheapest ).
A used Trevor James 'The horn' is still a decent horn - but avoid the Classic series.
Regards,
__
Stephen Howard
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2008-12-08 07:58
As a fairly advanced/experienced clarinettist who took up the saxophone after more than 20 years of playing the clarinet, I would very much agree with those who recommend having at least a few lessons. There are some differences from the clarinet.
I found the biggest challenges were the embouchure (which, as others have mentioned, is more rounded and looser than on the clarinet), the top notes which are played with the 'palm' keys on the sax (no direct equivalent on the clarinet) and the fact that the bottom end of the range is difficult as well as the top.
However, I love playing sax as well and have a lot of fun. Hope you do too.
Vanessa.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2008-12-08 12:10
I, too, second Yamaha or Jupiter saxophones for starting on. Good quality instruments. Also, the idea of talking with your local repair tech for his/her advice is excellent advice.
The only thing I have to add to the suggestions already given is to go beyond taking "a few lessons" with a good saxophone teacher. I say this as someone who has played clarinet and saxophone (and other instruments) for quite a few years and have a great love for each of my doubles. Don't short change the saxophone. Taking lessons will help you to avoid falling into bad habits and pitfalls as well as help you to make faster progress than it you attempt to learn it on your own.
Your clarinet experience will be of help to you with saxophone. However, they are distinctly different instruments and have more differences than similarities. This fact, in my opinion, is one of the primary reasons why it's important to work with a teacher if you're serious about the saxophone.
Good luck!
Roger
Post Edited (2008-12-08 12:26)
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Author: redwine
Date: 2008-12-08 12:35
Hello,
(Disclaimer-I'm a clinician/performer of Buffet clarinets-I get no compensation for stating what I believe to be true)
I tested a 400 series Buffet alto saxophone in October in New York and it was excellent! The price was very good too. I recommend you check that out.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-12-08 13:24
redwine - the OP is in the UK, as am I. Buffet saxes aren't very readily available here. Howarth list them, but several other major retailers don't. I don't know why this should be - everyone stocks Buffet clarinets, after all.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-12-08 15:05
Buffet saxes have been renamed Keilwerth, the Evette is around £300.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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