 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Noverbuf
Date: 2008-11-20 07:49
Hello, I alsmost new to this forum.
When comparing the intermediate horns of various manufacturers, namely big four Buffet, Selmer, Leblanc and Yamaha but let's be specific: Buffet Evette, Selmer Signet Soloist, Leblanc Noblet and Yamaha 450 will they follow in tonal qualities, response, blowing ease, feel of their older brothers from professional category of the same manufacturer?
E.I. Buffet - best warm tone, tricky intonation, higher resistance than everage; heavier keywork
Selmer - can't qualify, perhaps big dark tone
Leblanc - free blowing, can't comment on the tone; lighter keywork
Yamaha - precise intonation, nice tone, what else can you expect from the clarinet? Very ergonomical and innovative.
I haven't had any experience with any of the above so far and accumulated knowledge about the qualities of the horns from reading various articles and posts. The qualities are a matter of personal perception but this is not the point of my message. The point is of similarities between intermediate clarinets and professional models of the same manufacturer.
Post Edited (2008-11-20 08:00)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-11-20 10:35
As you say, "Let's be specific".
"Buffet Evette" no longer exists, though the E of Evette lives on in the E11 and E13 designations of two (entirely different) intermediate clarinets. The E13 and R13 are certainly very similar.
I think I'm right in saying that the Selmer Signet Soloist is, or was, made by the US Selmer company. This is quite separate from Selmer Paris, makers of the professional Selmer clarinets.
Leblanc France do make intermediate instruments that are very similar in design to the professional Concerto and Opus. However you ask about the Noblet instruments, which are of an entirely different design.
It's a good question - in essence - "Do the different makers each have a 'house style'". I think the answer is "No." I think each maker is trying to appeal to as many buyers as possible, and that means selling a variety of instruments at each price range.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Noverbuf
Date: 2008-11-20 12:10
Thanks for the first answer Norbert (hope not last). I just want to clarify a little my point.
I deliberately listed earlier and NOW cheaper versions of the intermediate horns so that, for example if one wanted to find 'HIS' clarinet they would know that if they found a simpler version of a particular horn suitable for their liking they would easier switch to a more advaced horn of the same Brand.
It looks on the pics, for example, that ALL Selmers, either Paris, or USA, or Germany all have very similar keywork. I heard form a reputable tech that you can take the keywork off Bundy and install it to Selmer Soloist with no problems at all. The keys are exactly the same. I looked at Paris Selmer series 9 on the pics and the keys look identycal to USA Bundy keys.
Well, this maybe not a typical example I guess, since on this board I read that lower and higher end Buffets have different keywork. But again, this is not main point.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-11-20 12:27
"I heard form a reputable tech that you can take the keywork off Bundy and install it to Selmer Soloist with no problems at all."
With Selmer USA clarinets this may be the case, though the Bundy and Signet clarinets do have differently shaped pad cups - domed on Bundys and pointed on Signets, and the Soloists are silver plated whereas the others are nickel plated.
"The keys are exactly the same. I looked at Paris Selmer series 9 on the pics and the keys look identycal to USA Bundy keys."
Not true - Selmer Series 9 keywork is far better made than Bundy keys and are not interchangeable. The bore and tonehole layout on Selmer USA clarinets may be based on the Selmer Paris clarinets, but the keywork is far more utilitarian on Selmer USA clarinets compared to Selmer Paris clarinets.
Ignore the extra keywork (mainly forked Eb/Bb, LH Ab/Eb, low Eb), but here's my set of Series 9 clarinets whose keywork bears no resemblance to Bundys:
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/galleryclar/Keywork/FB/07.jpg
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-11-20 12:30)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: malanr
Date: 2008-11-20 12:46
Excuse me Chris P.....
Question about that beautiful horn. You have the Low Eb, and an extra key in the tone holes on the right hand. Is the horn slightly longer for the Eb? And can you tell me what (i'm assuming is the fork Eb/Bb) the advantage to having this keywork is? I'm just used to using the first finger and ring finger for F#/Bnatural. Confused about the key for the middle right finger, is this just a key that is connected to the ring finger key?
Thanks!
Beautiful Horn!
Just another muscian
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-11-20 13:41
The Forked Eb/Bb mechanism (the extra ring for LH3) enables Eb or Bb to be played as xox|ooo instead of using the side or long Eb/Bb fingerings and makes going from C-Eb or G-Bb very easy - just lift LH2 for the Eb or Bb (xxx|ooo - xox|ooo).
Low Eb key also gives a mid Bb with the speaker key, so it comes in useful as an alternative to throat Bb if you don't want to go below the break for an isolated Bb or A#. The bottom joints are longer to give the low Eb.
I forgot to mention articulated C#/G# whereby you can hold down the C#/G# key and trill with RH2 for a B-C# or F#-G# trill (as on saxes). The extra key between RH 1 and 2 is an extra C#/G# touch connected to the LH C#/G# key and used for C-Db, G-Ab and high E-F trills.
But this means you lose the altissimo Bb fingering Sp.Th.xxxC#/G#|xxxF/C, though you can do this by playing C (xxx|xxxF/C) and taking the thumb off the thumb hole (but still keeping it on the speaker key).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2008-11-20 16:32
Here’s my experience with some of the horns you mention.
Selmer Signet: Nice horns. Keywork is rugged but a little spread out and the pinkie keys move farther than most. Intonation is good but not great. Low resistance. Nice full tone, not especially dark. There are three levels of Signet; 100, Special and Soloist. All are good players. The Soloist is closest to a pro horn. Signets are all made in the USA and are not parts interchangeable with French made Selmers. There are some plastic Signets, which are student instruments. Also, on the Bundy, there are two of them, the plastic student model, and an earlier wooden Selmer Bundy that is a pro horn. The wooden Bundys are uncommon but are supposed to be very good.
Noblet: There are a lot of versions of this model. The Noblet is the only intermediate of the bunch that is also available in an Eb version. I’ve only played the 40 and 45, which are the top models. They have low resistance and a large bore that can put out a lot of volume. Clarion and altissimo are well in tune, but chalumeau tends to be sharp in the right hand. I like their tone. It's not especially dark, if that's what you are looking for.
Leblanc: There are several pro models that are getting to be affordable and are excellent horns. These include; Double L (LL), Classic (and Classic II), a bunch of Symphonies (Symphonie, Symphonie Model, II, 3), VSP, etc. The early pro models don’t have a model name but can be identified by the distinctive jump trill key design. Double L is large bore, Symphonies and Classics are small bores. The VSP is an intermediate/low end pro instrument (like the Signet Soloist and Noblet 45). All of these are really nice players (keep in mind that I am biased towards them). Intonation is outstanding, resistance is low, and they are very even through all three registers. Double Ls are great for bands (dance, swing, jazz, etc.) and can put out a lot of sound. Symphonie/Classics have excellent tone but less power. These are especially good for chamber music and orchestras.
A few things to keep in mind. The mouthpiece has a powerful effect on tuning, tone and volume. If your mouthpiece and your horn don’t work together, the best instruments will sound bad, be out of tune with themselves and generally make you very unhappy. Barrels too can have this effect. A lot of older instruments have had the barrels replaced, which is usually not a good thing. Try to get the original barrel! Leaks are another problem to look for. They cause lousy tone, intonation problems and high resistance. Watch out for cracks. They can be hard to spot, especially if well repaired. An expertly repaired crack is no reason to reject a particular instrument, but it should lower the price.
Good luck in your search!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2008-11-20 22:44
Ref Tony's post, I think that Leblanc bore sizes may vary with models over time. I have just measured the bores of 3 instruments in my possession
LL (early 1960's) 14.8 mm
Symphonie (late 40's/early 50's) 14.9 mm
Classic II (late 60's) 15.0 mm
all are fully cylindrical throughout the top joint.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
