 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-11-19 13:52
I ask only because we try to live as frugally as possible when it comes to heating our home. The upstairs stays at 65 while the downstairs, where I sleep and practice, stays at 62. For weather that requires AC, we keep the indoor temps around 74.
Is 62 Fahrenheit TOO cold for a Buffet R13 to be kept without expecting any repercussions? (I keep my clarinet bore oiled.)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-11-19 14:26
<shiver>. I have lived in such a house, too. :-)
I think from 50F onwards you should be on the safe side when you just store the instrument; however, what's IMO more important than just absolute temperature is the relative humidity, and the rate at which eiter parameter changes - don't forget that your breath is warmer and more moist than the (initially cold) clarinet...
--
Ben
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-11-19 14:35
If it's too cold for YOU, it's too cold for your clarinet.
What's 62F in centigrade?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-11-19 15:19
That's fine.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris J
Date: 2008-11-19 15:31
Slightly off topic
There are 2 easy Centigrade / Fahrenheit conversions to remember, and that is one of them (by reversing the numbers)
16C is 61F
28C is 82F
Chris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-11-19 15:39
And both Centigrade and Farenheit read the same at -40° - that's the only one I remember.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2008-11-19 16:05
62F is no problem for storing, but you should warm up the exterior of clarinet, in particular the barrel and top joint by holding in your hands or close to body for several minutes belore playing (warm moist breath) into the instrument
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: stevensfo
Date: 2008-11-19 16:21
16'C is not what we're used to these days in our homes, but it's not exactly cold. Until people had central heating, most of the house would have been even cooler. They just wore more clothes.
Oh, and played clarinet of course!
Steve
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: shmeon
Date: 2008-11-19 16:37
I too have the same concern for my clarinets. I just moved into an old old house (built in 1910) that still has the original wood framed windows and single pane glass. I haven't practiced since the move but I've been monitering the temperature in the room I hope to make my studio. It gets down to 55 Farenheit in there, and it's not even into December when outside temperatures in this part of California get to around 30 Farenheit. Should I be worried? The house has a modern central heating system and I have used an electric space heater in my practice rooms before. On a side note, I once practiced by firelight at my family's cabin in northern California. The pipes were almost frozen, the propane was too cold to rise up the hill to light the heater, and the inside temperature in the morning was a crisp 35 degrees Farehheit!
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2008-11-19 16:53
It's not so much "what temperature" as more importantly "rapid change" in temperature that is detramental to wood instruments. For example, allowing your clarinet to become gradually cold--32 degrees, F, ex--will not necessarily result in a crack, but immediantly playing right out of the cold case might. The opposite example might be to take your clarinet out into the snow immediately after playing a long concert without allowing it to first gradually cool down. The real culpert is rapid temp change when it comes to wood cracking, not "at what temperature" should I store my instrument when not in use.
That said, I like to keep my clarinets as close to "room temperature" as possible at all times. I never leave them in the car overnight, even during the warmer season here in Wisconsin and if I am going to a resturant (or bar) after the concert, I take them inside with me. Our home (with automatic AprilAir) is kept at 70 degrees F during the day, but allowed to cool to 55 at night and none of my 15 clarinets has ever cracked or been damaged by temperature.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2008-11-19 17:36
An easy way to remember how to convert between Fahrenheit and Celsius is that there are 100 degrees between freezing and boiling in degrees Celsius and 180 degrees between freezing and boiling in degrees Fahrenheit (212F - 32F = 180)--which I think probably explains why temperature is said to be measured in "degrees."
So the formula is:
Fahrenheit = (180 / 100) * Celsius + 32
which reduces to F = (9/5) * Celsius + 32
or C = (F - 32) * (5/9)
What I do if I don't have a calculator for C to F conversion is:
1.) Double (2 x 28C = 56)
2.) Subtract a tenth off of that, rounding off, if necessary to make the math easier (56 - 5.6 ~= 56 - 6 = 50)
3.) Add 32 (50 + 32 = 82F)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-11-19 17:53
Having to convert C to F or v v, I prefer the 1.8 factor for mult. or divide and just memorized what the 10 degree intermals in C for 0 to 100 are in F, and interpolate as needed for approximation. Don [Chem Eng]
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Bubalooy
Date: 2008-11-19 20:21
I have a converter function on my cell phone. I don't have to memorize the equations.
People have been playing clarinets much longer than there has been central heating. I think many players today are hyper sensitive to the temperature issue. I allow my home to be much cooler than any of the posts here in winter, and I don't cool it in the summer. So far (knock on wood?) I haven't had any problems with the clarinets.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2008-11-19 21:47
What about after rehearsal, and taking a well warmed clarinet, in its case, out into freezing weather, and then getting in a car that won't warm up for at least 10 minutes? I haven't had any problems so far, but I still wonder.
For that matter, I remember in high school using my wood clarinets - first my grandfather's old Buffet, then my second-hand Selmer - as a member of the town band, when they went Christmas caroling around town, one evening in mid-December each year. Several of the stops were outdoors, and at least one year it was below freezing by a good margin - everyone that could was wearing gloves. I remember my fingers getting cramped from the cold. The clarinets withstood that scenario.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: William
Date: 2008-11-21 14:41
I recall many 15-20 minute cold walks back to the dorms after Concert Band rehearsals at UW's Music Hall--temps well below freezing and often windy, snowy as well. My R13 in it's stock case with no special weather protection survived many years of those trips and is still with me today, 44 yrs later, with no cracks. Just a lucky choice of good wood, I guess.
On the other hand, I will always remember hearing about David Petersons brand new (then 1962) Selmer clarinet's upper joint audibly cracking as the case was opened in his clarinet teachers University Ave studio. Yes, it was Wisconsin style mid-winter outside........
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Nasubi77
Date: 2008-11-21 15:19
>There are 2 easy Centigrade / Fahrenheit conversions to remember, and >that is one of them (by reversing the numbers)
>16C is 61F
>28C is 82F
This is not a reliable formula...and only works coincidentally at some numbers.
If 16C = 61F then
19C = 91F?
Don't think so...
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-11-21 15:20
As was mentioned before - it's not so much as the cold (or heat) being a problem, it's a sudden or instant change in temperature or humidity which is most likely to have a profound or adverse effect.
A clarinet that warms up or cools down gradually is more likely to do longer service than a cold one that is subjected to being blown down to warm it up quickly the instant it has been assembled.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
Independent Woodwind Repair Specialist
Oboes, Clarinets and Saxes
NOT A MEMBER OF N.A.M.I.R.
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-11-21 19:29
In Allentown, in the fall, we played for football games in freezing weather. I had a cheap metal one, but there were fine Selmers out there too. All out of tune, but who cared? For high temperatures, I can provide info; I have played in 95 F here in San Antonio.
richard smith
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-11-21 20:47
Yes, as Chris P et al have said, it's what we techs call Delta T, temp. diff. , and there is also a humidity diff. Breath at about 90 F and high [50% +] humidity can be stressful to a cold, dry cl! I try to warm up and cool down wood horns as slowly as possible, and have had no cracks !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tara
Date: 2008-11-21 22:30
I have the easiest temperature conversion... an application loaded onto my iPhone. Ha ha.
I also live in a home that is kept pretty chilly in the winter months. I am careful to warm up the instrument a bit with my hands before playing, and I try to keep the humidity up in the case. I think the rapid change and the humidity are the biggest factors here, as stated above.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: kilo
Date: 2008-11-22 11:45
>16C is 61F
>28C is 82F
I think the author presented these as a "special case", just a helpful touchstone, not a "formula" — similar to 55 mph = 88 kph.
As far as bringing a warm instrument into a cold car, it's not ideal, but the case will be at room temperature and will provide enough insulation to allow the horn to cool off gradually.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-11-22 13:57
If you wanted to convert it to degrees in Kelvin here is the conversion (maybe this would be useful to the Doc :D):
for celcius:
(celcius temp) + 273 = (degrees in Kelvin)
for fahrenheit:
{(fahrenheit temp)(9/5)} - 459 = (degrees in Kelvin)
...you can derive the method to convert it back if you like.
I've never had any problems with cracking. My house is not heated during the night, so some nights I wake up to temps in the high 50s, but then again I live in south-central Texas. Before rehearsals I sometimes hold my intsrument under my jacket to warm it up, but I do this mostly for comfort and tuning purposes.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Philip Caron
Date: 2008-11-22 22:01
Dave: "Though make sure that the instrument stays within a good humidity level in the case at least."
How?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: mrn
Date: 2008-11-22 22:19
Ryder wrote:
<<for fahrenheit:
{(fahrenheit temp)(9/5)} - 459 = (degrees in Kelvin)>>
Sorry to nitpick, but this formula is backwards. It should read:
(temp in Kelvin)(9/5) - 459.4 = temp in degrees Fahrenheit
To do the reverse, it's:
(temp in deg. Fahrenheit - 32)(5/9) + 273 = temp in Kelvin
Just didn't want anybody to lose points on their homework by mistake.
(BTW, as long as you're talking about the weather on planet Earth, the Kelvin temperature will be a greater number than Fahrenheit--and the Kelvin temperature is ALWAYS greater than Celsius, by definition)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Molloy
Date: 2008-11-23 13:38
We've been talking about visible damage. Does anybody know, will freezing damage the wood on a microscopic level?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
