 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-11-02 15:09
Hi!
A couple questions for the contra bass/ alto experts:
1) When you're playing the contra alto or contrabass clarinet, the instrument itself blocks the music right in front of you. How do you deal with the position of the music or do you adjust the neck joint so you see around it? Neither seems like a great alternative.
2) Have found a few nice pieces for contra alto/ bass but was wondering if the rest of you had some favorites that would be good recital type pieces/ interesting solos?
Eefer guy
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-11-02 17:18
The best answer I've come up with is to play with the clarinet slung to my right (in the position of a sax but on a support stand) and the stand slightly to my left, so that I'm only seeing the music with my left eye. I turn the mouthpiece slightly crooked to compensate, so that the reed lies at its normal angle in my mouth.
This position would also work for my bass sax, except the low notes on bass sax rattle my eyeballs enough so I can't read the music anyhow. I have to memorize. Even if long passages of notes aren't that low, I still need to read well ahead of what I'm playing whenever I see the pitch is about to drop to the cellar.
I kid around a lot, but this isn't a joke, btw: Very low reed notes literally do jiggle the eyeballs. The low notes on a contra-alto can also make a nearby candle flame gutter, too. I can even use the wavelengths coming from the bass sax to make small objects "walk the plank" off the top of the electronic piano in my office next to where I practice wind instruments, and though that trick doesn't work for me with the EEb contra-alto clarinet, I've heard it does work with a BBb contrabass clarinet. (The trick only works if the lightweight objects sit on something that can pickup a sympathetic vibration: wood with air under it, such as a console keyboard top or an empty bookshelf, is perfect.)
I can't see anything but a blur for the bottom half-octave on bass sax and to some extent I also have that problem on contra-alto clarinet, unless the music is printed in a fairly large font and I'm practicing in a room with good lighting. I would not want to have to sight-read anything complicated on either instrument.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-11-02 17:30
The eyeball jiggling can differ between individual instruments, too. I've had it happen pretty consistently on some basses, and not at all on others.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-11-02 19:10
Leila,
Thanks for your advice! That's what I've done sort of by trial and error. Have tried changing glasses and even that seems to help a bit by putting the stand a bit further away and using my long range rather than reading glasses.
You use the instrument right in the stand? Haven't thought of that. The peg seems pretty secure so I've been holding it like a regular bass just bigger.
Have a coouple quick questions:
1) A tiny swab came with the instrument and might be useful for the neck joints, but I was wondering how to really clean it. I do have a long handled swab for my Buffet bass that I don't use on it but it might work well on the contra alto.
2) In conjunction with #1, the middle joint and the second part of the neck joint seem to be set in place (or at least the screws LOOK permanent)on the Selmer USA. Have you platyed with these especially for cleaning. My middle two joints seem to work fine but the connecting rods seem to be not flush. Is that typical?
Sorry for the questions. The horn just arrived. It's rather cool but I don't want to mess it up.
Thanks!
Eefer guy
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Author: clarionman
Date: 2008-11-02 22:20
Ebclarinet1,
Congrats on the new Contra. I got my new contra about about 2 or 3 months ago. I also have a Selmer USA horn. I did notice on my contra that the middle joints are not flush. I don't know if that is normal or not but it seems to be that way since your contra and my contra are like that. May be the new contras are coming that way.
Is very weird that just before I log-in on the board I found a bass clarinet swab and starting thinking about starting a new topic to find how to clean my contra alto since it came with that tiny swab or if it's even necessary to clean it other then the neck part. Hopefully somebody will have an answer for that.
Getting to your original question. I bought a stool that I use to play the contra on a comfortable position and I put my music stand to my right. Since putting the stand directly in front the music gets blocked. I found that putting it to the right and as further back as I can so I can turn the music easily is the way that works for me. I use the neck strap and the peg to slightly tuck that instrument in so I can play it and see the music well. I use glasses and if I don't put my music stand back enough I have a hard time reading the last line of music.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-11-03 13:21
Clarioman,
Thanks for the input! I'm glad that mine was not the only one so constructed. On my Buffet Prestige bass and alto the connections between the two middle joints have to be perfectly aligned or bad noises result. That was why this so alarmed me!
The bass cleaning rod that came with my Prestige goes up about 2/3rds of the contra alto but it does nothing of course for the top metal joint that seems to be fixed in the horn. Are these detachable for cleaning? They appear to be not for routinely being separated.
On the reeds, I've found that the one Rico reed that came in the case to be better than the Gonzalez bari sax reeds that I bought. Have since ordered some more Ricos and a box of Marca contra alto clarinet reeds that haven't arrived yet. Do have a Clark Fobes mouthpiece that works much better than the Bundy mouthpiece supplied with the horn. What are your suggestions for reeds?
Have enjoyed playing the two Alfred Reed pieces Afro and another whose name escapes me right now. What is everyone else playing?
Thanks for the suggestion on the stool. Did change chairs and that does help!
Eefer guy
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-11-03 14:08
Forgot to mention I sit on a stool, too--thanks for adding that, clarionman. Mine's a drummer's throne, adjustable up and down. The back of a chair only gets in the way with an instrument this big.
My contra-alto is a Bundy 1440, probably from the 1980s, similar to the model now sold as the American Selmer except the older model has no support peg. I support it with a Koenig & Meyer stand sold for bass clarinet and bassoon. This stand has a rubber cup closely resembling the business end of a toilet plunger. The bell rests in the cup. The stand is meant for supporting the clarinet upright when it's not being played, but it also works for playing: steady support, raises the clarinet just barely enough off the floor for me (I'm short), but allows for some freedom of movement. (A taller person could do what I did for my alto clarinet, which also has no peg. I modified a tenor sax stand by moving the bottom bracket up higher, bending the top bracket narrower and adding a toilet plunger to the base, with the right measurement of the plunger stick still attached.)
For swabbing the contra-alto, I use an ordinary silk clarinet swab for the neck and the bell. For the sections, I use an Ann Hodge silk bass clarinet swab. If I stored my contra-alto with the upper and lower sections taken apart at the center joint, the 4 feet of pull-through plastic cord would be long enough, but because I leave the middle sections connected in a long case, I modified the swab by removing the plastic-covered weight, adding 14" of ball-chain to the cord and then replacing the weight at the end of the chain, so that the weight will drop all the way through both of the connected sections.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: clarionman
Date: 2008-11-03 14:36
Ebclarinet1
For reeds I use Vandoren 3. When I order my contra the wwbw did not have any marca reeds so I bought some Rico but those are too soft so I need to trim them to make them playable. I really like the Vandoren for the contra. The reed is alitle bit too wide for the mouthpiece that came with the horn but that does not seem to affect anything.
I was wondering about the Fobes mouthpiece if it would make any change compare to the mouthpiece that came with the horn. I will have to look into the Fobes mp. Which MP do you have?
Regarding music. I only use my contra to play with the San Diego Clarinet Society Clarinet Choir. All of the music we play there is arrange by the conductor Charlie Ells-McLeod.
Leila Loban,
Are you saying that you take your contra apart by removing the metallic band where the two pieces meet?
Great idea about what you do for the swab. But is it really necessary to clean the body of the contra and go through all that trouble?
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-11-03 15:56
Boy, great suggestions! Thanks to both.
I bought the Fobes Nova contra alto mouthpiece as I couldn't find the San Francisco model in any catalog. It is really superior to the Bundy mouthpiece in all respects. Am glad to know that the Van Doren reeds work on the contra alto. Was sort of convinced that they wouldn't as they are a little too big. The Gonzalez bari reeds seem a little small and they didn't want to seal as well as the Rico. Have a box of #3 Rico's that came in today to se if they aren't better., I'm betting it's a #2 that came with the instrument.
Yes Leila I want to know if you take the joints apat too.
Eefer guy
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2008-11-03 20:21
To come back to original question very quickly... I put the music stand slightly to the right in front of me and so have to turn my eyes slightly to the right, looking just past the instrument. It never bothered me to read like this.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-11-04 15:58
The #3 Ricos are much better than what came with the horn (I'm assuming a 2 came in the case). Am awaiting the Marcas and have ordered some Van Doren's on clarionman's advice. Don't think I've played on a Rico (other than a few Grand Concerts) since the 6th grade (for me, quite a while ago!).
Can't wait to get my other pieces that I've ordered. The two Reed pieces for contra are quite nice and the Schmidt Sonatina too. I was a bit worried that the contra alto wouldn't be enough different than the bass but the wider bore of the instrument does give it a different feel than the bass. Definitely a more sinister edge to it.
Have tried positioning the music to the right and left. Left seems to work a bit better for me, and then angle the instrument slightly to the right. My left eye has better vision than my right though so that might be some of my preference.
EEfer guy
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2008-11-04 16:49
Ebclarinet1, what Schmidt piece do you mean? Is it for contra? I cannot find info on it immediately...
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-11-04 19:15
nahoj,
I got my copy of the Schmidt Sontaina for contra alto clarinet from Luyben Music. Check their web site. It is a nice piece amd a bit more challenging than the Reed ones. Annette is one of the few with a lot of things for OTHER clarinets. (And no, I'm not not anyway associated with the company.) He also has composed "Variations on a Whaling Song" although I think that one sounds better on the alto than the contra.
Good luck!
Eefer guy
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Author: blazian
Date: 2008-11-04 22:57
I take my Bundy EEb contra apart quite often. Taking the top part of the neck off was easy for me. All you have to do is take the screws out and twist/pull the neck off being careful not to damage the bridge register key. I wouldn't recommend taking it apart routinely though. When I received my contra (used), the inside was caked with brown sludge (still moist, ewww). I took the neck and the middle apart and used two clarinet pull-throughs to clean out the inside.
I haven't gotten around to buying a good contra mouthpiece to replace my old Bundy 3. I use my bass C* with a lot of teflon tape with much better results plus a med. soft Fibracell.
When I play, I twist the neck to the right and put my stand to the left. Luckily, I'm tall enough to sit on a normal chair (+- a book or two) and not a stool or stacked chairs. I've never had any tuning problems from pulling the neck way out.
- Martin
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Author: Wes
Date: 2008-11-05 20:01
One of the EEb contras I bought had some deteriation of the surface of the inside of the upper half due to not being wiped out with school use. The sound was slightly defocussed, probably because of the rougher surface on the inside. One can conclude that it is best to fully swab the instrument after each playing. Good luck!
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Author: nahoj
Date: 2008-11-06 21:59
Ok, but how do you swab a paperclip? Anyone has a practical method for that?
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Author: LCL
Date: 2008-11-07 00:18
I swab my paper clip with a small piece of towel tied to a long cord and fishing weight. You insert the weight on the end where the neck goes and very slowly rotate the horn so the weight travels through the bore and out the end where the bell is inserted. You can do it the other way around, if you like. I've done it dozens of times and was a drum major 44 years ago, so I'm pretty good at twirling!
Regards,
LCL
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-11-07 12:42
Thanks for all the suggestions. Think we have a group of wonderfully inventive people on this BBoard!
If you have access to the big bottle brush type swab that comes with the Buffet bass, this does seem to do a great job of swabbing out the long straight plastic sections on contra alto too. Does anyone know if they sell it WITHOUT buying a Buffet bass? I did get brave and disconnected the second part of the neck joint and got it back on without incident and used a BG swab "for neck joints of clarinet and sax" that worked well. I haven't disconnected the two plastic joints yet but the Buffet swab reaches to the middle on both sides You'd think they'd have designed this a bit differently though. Of course cleaning was probably not the first thing on the minds of the instrument designers.
Played some bass last night and was surprised that it seemed HIGH to me after playing the contra for a few days. I do think my wind might be better after playing contra. It requires more and maybe more focus to get a good sound and that improved the sound quality on my bass too.
The Marca contra alto reeds arrived today. I'll report on their performance later.
This has been a very interesting and helpful thread. Thanks so much.
Eefer guy
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-11-07 15:06
>>Are you saying that you take your contra apart by removing the metallic band where the two pieces meet?
Great idea about what you do for the swab. But is it really necessary to clean the body of the contra and go through all that trouble?
>>
Sorry I've been so slow about coming back and answering! No, I never take my contra-alto apart at the center joint, although it does come apart there. I don't have the usual type of case for my contra-alto. It came with an old, after-market long-case (very heavy, made of wood), that resembles a giant-sized version of the cases for old metal soprano clarinets (though my Bundy EEb clarinet is plastic). There are separate compartments for the bell, the neck and doodads (I made a padded bag for the mouthpeice) but no separate compartments for the two key-stack sections. I like this case, because I'm too short and my hands are too small for me to take the monster apart easily at the center. There's a risk that I'll damage a tenon when I try to put the sections back together.
I do think it's a good idea to swab out the whole thing after a long practice session. Though the neck traps most of the condensation, I can feel moisture on the other swab I use for the sections after I pull it through. Jim Lande sold me this clarinet in clean, playable condition, but I've bought flea market saxophones that smelled like what happens when the power goes out and the freezer defrosts while someone's away on vacation. Yuck. I'd rather go to a little bit of trouble now than have to clean out a lot of trouble later.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2008-11-07 15:08)
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-11-09 13:24
Just tried the Marca contra alto reeds and they are much better than the Ricos and quite a bit harder than the comparable Rico. Sound is much better. Much more focused. The Van Doren's are on order so I'll do the three way comparison when they arrive. Have used Van Doren's for years so i expect they'll be good although I use Gonzalez on my other horns routinely. The Gonzalez bari reeds were a little too small for the contra alto mouthpiece and caused some sqwaks.
Leila, thanks for all your helpful information. The case that comes with the contra alto is not my favorite. The compartments are not well formed and seem to be similar to what you are describing for your horn. I remember the old ones from high school days had molded openings for each part. Am sure this is a bit cheaper for Selmer but not nearly as good. The dealer had shipped mine with lots of bubble wrap and shims of cork in a couple of the keys to prevent them from wobbling during the shipping. Actually I so hated my case on the Selmer bass (1986 vintage) that I bought a nice replacement case. The repair guy thought the case was ruining the instrument! Hopefully the new Selmer cases are better!
Eefer guy
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Author: clarionman
Date: 2008-11-11 00:20
Unfortunately the Selmer case that came with my contra alto is horrible. The instrument fits way too tight that it started to flatten the curb on the top of the instrument. I had to mess aroung with it until I could make the horn fit well.
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-11-12 12:50
Clarionman,
My case is horrible too. It is weird that they went from the molded case back in the 70's to this sort of big case with little bocks iof covered material. When the horn was shipped to me it was in bubble wrap and there were shims of cork at several of the longer key extensions to prevent movement during shipping. If they were that worried about shipping you'd think they would worry about our day to day use too!
Am sure the Selmer Paris does not have this case. Anyone know what that case costs?
Have found that you really have to purt a lot of your mouth on the mouthpiece to make the prettiest sound. Am pleaased with the sound. It is a very nice horn, especially for the $$.
Eefer guy
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Author: clarionman
Date: 2008-11-18 22:36
Ebclarinet1,
Any news regarding the reeds. I am curious how the marca reeds compare to the vandoren.
I was wondering how much a replacement case would cost and if they even make a replacement case. I don't understand why Selmer USA will even make that cheap of a case. I think they could have put more pride on their work with the case.
Where did you order your contra from?
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-11-19 00:39
Clarionman,
The reeds rank in order VanDoren> Marca>>Rico on the Fobes mouthpiece. The VanDoren reeds gave a very full sound throughout the range and the altissimo sounded especially good. Marcas might be a bit better on the very low notes. They are lots cheaper too.
Got mine from WWBW because they had it in stock. Weiner's was cheaper but they had a 3-6 month wait.
I am thinking of picking up a Selmer Paris contra alto clarinet case if i can find one. This case is horrible. Luckily my case doesn't move right now, I just assemble the instrument and the case stays where it has been since arriving here.
Good luck!
eefer guy
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