 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-10-26 06:17
Hi
Does anyone here have a Selmer Privilege bass clarinet? Do you have the vent hole in the bell (the same as what Buffet have). I have one here and it doesn't have the vent hole. I remember one player showing the vent hole on his, and also found a fuzzy photo I took which shows a Privilege with vent hole. But in all of Selmer's advertising , including their website, the Privilege doesn't have the bell hole. Did they add this at some point, or actually removed it? As far as I know, both I've seen without vent holes were bought approx. a year after I say the ones with vent holes (which seems strange).
Thanks
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Author: thomas.b
Date: 2008-10-27 10:49
I had some pictures of the previvious model, the early pictures of the privilege. They all show the instrumetn from the right side ( same as the actual advertising of Selmer) and there is no vent hole at the right side ( I don't know whats on the other side, where Buffet has the vent hole). I read a test report where is stated, that the short Privilege ( low Eb) has a vent hole... there is no statement about the low c- instrument...
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-10-27 12:23
Thanks, your reply made me realize to what to look for better. Now I noticed that the Selmers with vent holes are all low Eb, and the low C doesn't have the vent hole. That's both in advertisements and the photos I have. They probably realized that the same size bell will work for both except the vent hole, which only requires adding it to the bow, as opposed to actually make different bell/bow/socket/tone hole/etc.
I have some photos of the bass clarinet of the player with a low C Privilege with vent hole, and at first I thought the bell is completely unclear, but after I brightened it a lot, it was possible to see. He does have a vent hole, but he also has a completely modified bell. It looks like there is an extension of the body for the low C key, I guess to allow for the vent hole to play the C in tune. At first I thought he used a low Eb bass bell bow, but the vent hole is in a different place. Actually it looks most like the vent hole is the tone hole which was previously closed by the low C key.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-27 12:54
There was a picture of Henri Bok and Sarah Watts in the 2005-2006 John Myatt catalogue pictured with Privilege low C basses (both with wooden bells) which was discussed on here at the time, though I don't know if the photo is online.
Henri Bok's Privilege bass has a wooden extension piece with a key on it between the bottom joint and bell (like a cor anglais low Bb barrel seen on German spec cors), and the bell has no key on the U-tube section - presumably the bell key was fitted to the extension piece (as the bell key pillars are still in place on the U-tube) leaving the tonehole as an open vent for low C.
Sarah Watts' Privilege bass also has a wooden bell, but no extension piece between the bottom joint and the bell, and the bell still has the bell key on it.
Just reading the article, it says "The new model Privilege, which replaces the long running 25S, features updated and strengthened keywork; including an Eb lever for the thumb; and a number of improvements."
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-09-17 02:23
Hi,
I have a Selmer Privilege Low Eb bass with the extra vent hole on the bell. As might be expected, my Low Eb is high by about 15 cents. To bring that note down though I have found three ways to accomplish the change. The first is to just put a standard, round Yamaha cork grease holder in the bell; the second is to bring my leg/sock close to the vent. The third way is to just lip the Eb down a good bit but that changes the tone quality significantly. I believe that the Buffet Low Eb also has a vent as well.
How have other players accomplished the lowering of this note on a bass with the bell vent?
HRL
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Author: Toolaholic
Date: 2017-09-17 17:10
I'm guessing the vent is where the low C key would be on a selmer low C priveledge bass. Bet the low Eb and low C basses share the same bell.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-09-17 18:44
Sorry - I completely forgot about this thread and only tried a low C Privilege bass not so long ago. I should've taken more notice.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-09-17 19:13
>> I'm guessing the vent is where the low C key would be on a selmer low C priveledge bass. Bet the low Eb and low C basses share the same bell. <<
Actually they both have a key on the bell but only the low Eb has the extra vent hole. I didn't compare them side by side when I could and have only seen low C ones since then. They look similar in online photos but hard to be sure.
Chris, I've tried so many low C basses, but low Eb basses likes these are extremely rare here and anyone buying them usually goes for the low C. Anyway I think it's still the same, low C without vent, low Eb with. The bass in the original post did have a modification and not the standard one, apparently to play low B instead when plugging the hole.
Hank, since the long Bb is rarely used and probably not so important, check intonation with the vent completely closed. How flat is it? You can try reducing the vent until it's good if the tone isn't affected too negatively.
Vent holes have a "dead zone". Let's say you start with a tiny vent hole that makes no difference. Start enlarging and it is gradually becomes the actual tone hole for the note instead of a vent hole for the previous note. The bass bell vent hole is more of a tone hole than a vent. There is a range in the size that the hole will "take over" the note as its tone hole, and then if it's too small the note could be very stuffy.
Post Edited (2017-09-17 19:14)
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-09-17 19:37
Clarnibass,
Good to hear from you. I'll "play" around with the long Bb and note the intonation. BTW, I have not relied on the long Bb at any time.
HRL
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-09-17 19:45
It's probably referred to as a vent as it's an open hole with nothing to operate it, but it is in effect the low C tonehole as that duty no longer lies with the lowest note issuing directly from the bell. Same with Buffet low C basses and basset horns.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tucker ★2017
Date: 2017-09-17 20:55
Uebel has the "tonehole" on the same side of the bell as the low C key. I was just playing around with it.... covered it up w/ a piece of tape. It dropped the low C by about 45 cents on my phone app tuner (not sure how accurate it is). One thing I've always wondered, maybe someone might know... .in Uebel's webpage for the bass.... says there is a "G-resonance" key. Anyone know what a G-resonance key is?
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-09-18 00:24
That's the double pad cup on the RH F/C key - the G/D tonehole is the uppermost of the two toneholes and the lower small diameter one (opposite and almost in line with the F#/C# key's tonehole) is the G/D vent/resonance vent. Wh/n you play G/D (xxx|xxx) that note speaks from the open toneholes under the F/C pad cups.
It's giving better venting for G/D by effectively opening the F#/C# tonehole (just as the double RH3 key on flutes effectively offers the open G# venting even with a closed G# key). You'll see it much better with the RH F/C key taken off.
Buffet basset horns have resonance vents for (in descending pitch) F# (doubled thumb toneholes), D/A (doubled LH3 toneholes), A/E (doubled RH3 - a side key like an oboe forked F vent) and the G/D (double F/C key cups). Also a perforated RH1 fingerplate to further vent B/F# (although an Acton vent would be much better).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2017-09-18 02:42
Chris P,
That makes sense that "it is in effect the low C tonehole as that duty no longer lies with the lowest note issuing directly from the bell" but my bass is just a Low Eb Selmer.
HRL
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2017-09-18 07:24
>> I'll "play" around with the long Bb and note the intonation. <<
I meant check intonation of the low Eb with various sizes of inserts in the open tone hole. Intonation of long Bb is only relevant depending on how you use it. If you don't then it's not.
Chris, that's for the Buffet, the Selmer only has the open tone hole on the low Eb model.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2017-09-19 02:19
Hank Lehrer wrote:
"That makes sense that "it is in effect the low C tonehole as that duty no longer lies with the lowest note issuing directly from the bell" but my bass is just a Low Eb Selmer."
In any case it's the lowest note that'll issue from the bell vent hole, built to low C or low Eb.
Many years back I worked on a Moennig Los Angeles bass that was German in design but with Boehm system keywork built to low Eb. The lower joint was longer than your average low Eb bass and had the Eb vent hole on it with a mushroom-shaped wooden bush and closing that off would give low D from the bell.
It was a pretty dreadful bass - really bendy keywork and had a strange oval bore to the bell bow. I think the bell may have also had a vent hole on the bow as well as the low Eb bushed vent on the body, only I've tried to forget that instrument as much as possible.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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