 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-24 16:13
While rehearsing 'West Side Story' the other week I wanted a low B to be in unison with the double bass in one of the numbers - but just covering the side vent on the bell didn't flatten the low C enough to get a good low B.
But that was until earlier today when I was doing a bit of practice on bass for a forthcoming concert when I dropped the mouthpiece cap down the bell to see if this helped. This sort of worked though the low B was still sharp and muffled.
Then I remembered I had a discarded cardboard tube from a roll of Bounty kitchen towel (mostly used up to dry sockets with!). Stick a cardboard tube from the middle of a roll of kitchen towel (9" or nearly 23cm) down the bell and cover the side vent with the side of your left foot. Voila! An in-tune low B - I'll keep this bit of cardboard tube in with my bass, and as there's the side vent on the bell, you still have low C while it's left uncovered whereas others without the bell vent will play low B and C#, but lose the low C altogether.
I wonder if Rachmaninov wanted the bass part to descend to low concert A in his 2nd symphony (when the A bass only went to low E at that time)? Anthony Baines mentioned usign cardboard tubes for low D on low Eb basses, so why not a low B for a low C bass?
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-10-24 18:19
Well done, Chris, a re-discovery of the "bassoonists trick" ? I tried out several large [tapered] plastic drink cups [bottoms removed] to "tune" a low D on both my Selmer Bb bass and my Selmer Eb alto . It sacrifices the low Eb of course, and like your experience, infrequently needed !! Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-10-24 20:38
Chris,
Great minds must think alike. I was noticing the substantial bell hole on both the Presige altos and basses and was wondering if they could be used like the old holes on the bells of the Bundy oboes, to get a Bb out in that case.With those you had to use your legs to play the low Bb! Anyway, you've obviously beaten me to the concept on the clarinets. In the case of the alto that would allow me to get every note of the basset horn even the low C if you transpose the part.
Was trying to think if any of the old bass clarinet in A extends that low to take advantage of it there. Nothing comes to mind although La Valse is the only extensive A bass clarinet I've played.
Great tinkering!
Eefer guy
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-10-24 21:46
On baritone sax, you need something larger -- usually a shoe.
The lowest note on a bassoon is Bb, but the last note in the Nielsen Quintet is low A. There are low A joints available, but the oboe part calls for English horn, and the usual trick is to drop the English horn bell into the top of the bassoon (assuming there's no key on the bell). The alternative is the cardboard center tube from a roll of paper towels. In the recording by the dedicatees, the bassoonist plays the last note up an octave.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-25 05:41
"On baritone sax, you need something larger -- usually a shoe." Or an ashtray, but these are impossible to come by now there's no smoking in pubs.
The cor anglais solo in the slow movement of Mahler 6 and 'Das Lied von der Erde' has a low Bb - so a roll of paper in the bell (eg. a £20 note) will give this. But you lose the B natural.
In a big band arrangement of 'My Funny Valentine' I was playing both the bari part and the 5th trombone/tuba part as there were only four trombones.
Right at the end the 5th trombone part goes to low concert Bb (bari low G), so as the 2nd alto player wasn't playing, I told him to stick his arm down the bell on my bari while I played my low A. It worked.
Then there was a concert B natural (bari low Ab) and told him to put his arm part way down the bell - this too did the trick. But the last note was a concert C (my low A) and he didn't realise I already had this, so I had to pull my bari away as he went to put his hand down the bell!
A vocal arrangement of 'Crazy' (Willie Nelson) goes from G into Ab for the bari, so I use a beer towel in the bell for the low Ab.
Due to some keywork alterations I made to my old Selmer basset horn (namely turned the low D key to a LH Ab/Eb key in preparation for adding more keywork) I've lost the low D. I can still play low Eb, low Db and C with the keywork but low D natural has been lost until I make and fit thumb keys (for low D and C) to it. But I can play low D by closing the pad cup with my right knee.
On my Buffet basset horn it has the low C issue through a vent hole like the Prestige bass, so these basset horns can also get a low B by covering the vent and sticking a cardboard tube in the bell, and not losing the low C.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-10-25 08:16)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-10-25 06:28
On the Buffet low C bass clarinet, just convering the hole gives something close to a B which might be usable in some cases in spite of it being sharp. Chris, doesn't the cardboard tube make the low C too flat? I guess They could have made the bell a little longer for a more in tune low B, and possibly change the location of the low C vent hole if necessary, although an even bigger bell would really be annoying especially with some non-stock cases (it's already very big compared with Selmer for example).
Maybe only in my case (both meanings) carrying the cardboard tube isn't that comfortable. Also for several reasons I wouldn't need or want to use the low B anyway, though I guess the situation would be different in a big band or orchestra type perfromance.
But here is something very strange. In the bass clarinet festival a few years ago I specifically remember the Selmer Privilege model had a vent hole in the bell. Actually one player had a plug for the vent hole to have a low B instead of a low C (he also seemed to think it was in tune without any other extension to the bell). But I have a low C Selmer 67 here now, and it doesn't have the bell vent hole. I checked the catalogue from the festival, and the Selmers in the advertisement don't have the vent holes. I looked in some photos I have from the festival, and the only one I found is a bit fuzzy and isn't very clear, but looks like the Selmers do have a bell vent hole. Maybe they added it later...?
For baritone saxophone, you can use something like a rolled magazine to get a low A on a low Bb baritone. Something similar is probably true on a low A baritone to get an Ab.
Nitai
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-26 08:32
"Chris, doesn't the cardboard tube make the low C too flat?"
I just checked it with a tuner and both the low C and the low B are bang smack in tune with the tube in place.
The danger with vent holes that are left uncovered by keywork is that they're just asking to be closed off to see what depths we can descend to! The most common examples (as previously stated by Eefer Guy) are basic conservatoire system oboes that only go to low B (Bundy, etc.) - they still have the full length bell but have two open vent holes in order to issue low B, so players are naturally going to close these vent holes with their knees for a low Bb.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-10-26 14:32
IMVHO, patentability doughtful, T B, bell extension appears quite OLD. I made a Google and a USPTO search [US pats only] {quickies}, via "extended AND range AND bass AND clarinet" finding 6 retrieved by Google, several needing study !!, and 16 by USPO, not promising via title. If anyone by now is motiuvated to start reading, I'd suggest Yamaha's pat US 4,809,xxx which both searches retrieved. Sun AM thots, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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