 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-10-22 13:09
Last night we had sectionals. there is a total of 5 clarinet players in our 60+ wind symphony.
2 on first, 1 on second, 1 on third, and 1 on bass
I am playing first part. I had a problem with being very sharp and got it pretty much resolved by having tom ridenour send me a longer barrell. it is crucial that me and my partner are in tune with each other since theres only 2 of us. when we arent it really stands out.
we are pretty much in tune with each other but last night during one of the pieces - (note A below the staff) he was a bit flat, i was a little more than a bit sharp. I pulled out the middle joint which helped a little. but still we clashed. its on slow half notes so its not like we can just rush thru and no one will notice.
then he embarrassed me in front of everyone by pointing out that "i" was the cause (because he wascloser in tune with the tuner than i was) and asked what "size" reed was I using? (i use 3 1/2)i guess he was thinking that my "soft" reed was making me sharp.
anyway, i dont know what to do about this. even with a loose emboucure i cant get the pitch down enough.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-10-22 13:34
janlynn wrote:
> then he embarrassed me in front of everyone by pointing out
> that "i" was the cause (because he wascloser in tune with the
> tuner than i was) and asked what "size" reed was I using? (i
> use 3 1/2)i guess he was thinking that my "soft" reed was
> making me sharp.
If this were in "tuning court," he'd be liable, too.  By the way, a 3.5 is not a "soft" reed in my book.
And if it were too soft, the effect on the tuning would be to make you flatter, not sharper.
> anyway, i dont know what to do about this. even with a loose
> emboucure i cant get the pitch down enough.
If you need to lip the note down even more, try pointing your tongue down below the reed and opening your throat while you drop your jaw (think "yaw"). I use this technique for bending notes in jazz and klezmer style playing. With a little practice you can actually play different notes this way without changing your fingers.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-22 13:56
At last week's band call for 'West Side Story' it was nice that all of us four players with clarinets on our part were bang smack in tune with each other - the unison bits in 'Something's Coming' and 'Balcony Scene' were indeed unison, even though in the latter I was the only one on bass and in unison with the three others on clarinet, it was still in tune.
The reed 1,2 and 4 players have Buffet Bbs (I'm playing either a Selmer or Leblanc), 2nd reed has a Leblanc bass, I've got a Buffet and 4th reed player has an old Selmer. Even so, we could all play perfectly in tune with one another without having to think about it.
I already know and have worked with the other reed players doing 1,2 and 4 in other bands and pit orchestras, and was glad to see they were in the lineup as they're among the best players in the area and this makes things so much easier for everyone. If only there were more like them.
So when you have players that actually listen to what's going on around them and know what they're doing (and aren't all big-headed about it thinking their way is the only way and no-one else is entitled to an opinion) it makes all the difference rather than players who just get their heads down and play what's in front of them and have disregard for the others, but still complain about the other players tuning.
Playing in tune with a tuner is one thing - fine if you're unaccompanied, but playing in tune with other players and in a section (and having the section playing in tune) is another matter. Everyone has to make some allowances and adjustments.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-10-22 17:35
A bit of a tangent...
2 on first and fewer on second and third? Recipe for top-heavy disaster. If anything, the ensemble should have two on third, as they're generally written in a range that has more trouble projecting.
My advice is to make a determination about which clarinet is "in charge" of the intonation. It's very convenient if it's the person at the end of the row (i.e. first chair, or if you have some egalitarian system in place, the person who sits where a less egalitarian ensemble would call first chair). That person is responsible for being in tune with the rest of the ensemble. The "second chair" is responsible for being in tune with the first chair. If they are playing unison, and second chair can hear himself play, he's too loud or out of tune. And so on, down the line. Everyone has a particular job, and it becomes nearly impossible to pass the buck. If you sound different from the person "above" you, it's your fault. If the section is out of tune with the ensemble, it is the first chair's fault.
Is it just the A that's bad? If you're still running generally sharp, perhaps you need to pull out yet more (or get a barrel that's longer still). If it's a particular note, a good tech may be able to help you with that.
Could also be that you're biting, providing insufficient air (louder brings the pitch down on clarinet, the opposite of most instruments), or otherwise doing something that brings the pitch up. Are you taking lessons?
Also, imho, for winds the tuner is good for two things: "calibrating" the ensemble so that you're in the same vicinity, and determining the pitch tendencies of notes on your instrument while in the practice room. Unless you're a piano, your E being the closest to the E the tuner shows is somewhat irrelevant in context.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-10-22 18:15
He's an arse, i'd tell him to sort his own intonation out before making comments. That's unprofessional.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-10-22 19:28
I would look also to the dynamic level. Don't shy away from your A. If you do it will be even sharper. There is a tendency to hide when you think a problem area is coming. Without doing any pulling or pushing the two of you could probably play in tune with just a balance adjustment. You louder, him softer. Give this a try. Also you might just check that very passage before a rehearsal. Rather than just tuning one note play the whole passage. Don't worry about tuning meters and who's right or wrong. You're already on your way if you know you have been sharp. If this person is uncompromising then you have to match him. You'll be a better clarinetist for it. Just do it and be diligent. There's a good chance that your tuning problems won't go away. It's something we all have to work at. Two more points...many times we tune from the bottom up . ie listen to the bass note in the chord. Even go over and play your note with the bass note. #2. Where the note fits in the chord has a bearing on what sounds good. It might be good to be slightly flat or for that matter sharp. It depends. Good luck, cooperate and the most difficult thing...put your ego away. (no criticism of you)
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-10-22 19:53
I have always felt that if it is out of tune, both players are wrong. Of course, this is assuming that both have a relatively good pitch.
Regarding the comment above about being top heavy, sometimes there is a need for 2 one first, to cover divisis. Somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall seeing instrumentation of the Sousa Band and finding that he used more on first than the other parts.
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Author: Bubalooy
Date: 2008-10-22 19:58
When you pull the joints apart, obviously, you make the instrument longer. You can also accomplish that by partially covering or covering openings below the note you're playing. Hold fingers closer to open holes or pushing keys that cover holes near the bell of the instrument. Sometimes, the keys adjust too much and you get a different pitch altogether, a high g sharp instead of a lower A for example but you can experiment and often find something that works.
Tuners, are only in tune with themselves! Ensembles go higher, in some cases lower as they play, even if they originally tuned with a tuner. It is far more important to be in tune with the ensemble than the tuner. It's a tool not the divine commander. Perhaps the most important thing is to listen closely but not just to the person next to you, to the ensemble, often we make the changes without thinking about it. Then, you can slug it out with the person next to you. The tuner is irrelevant unless the entire ensemble is in tune with it.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-10-22 20:00
"He's an arse, i'd tell him to sort his own intonation out before making comments."
HAHAHA! Like it!
Now, would you follow that up with 'take him outside and give him a good slap'?
I know sometimes it's tricky to retain our sense of dignity when others just seem to be out there to purposely intimidate or annoy us, but we must be able to keep a lid on it - but if they do get to you, try to keep in control and be prepared for whatever they throw at you.
Plan your moves in advance (there are countless put-downs you can use at any given moment) and try to stay one step ahead of them at all times so you don't let them get to you. A well delivered and cutting comment at the right time does wonders for you as well as knocking the stuffing out of their sense of pride.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2008-10-22 20:35
It also makes enemies. They'll get you back sometime later. Better to use diplomacy and bite your tongue. Pride gets you nowhere except into more trouble.
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Author: davidsampson
Date: 2008-10-22 20:50
Normally I would agree, but fighting fire with fire seems to be appropriate here. I highly doubt this player could know for certain that he was perfectly in tune with all the other players, and that you were the problem. Even if he could he should not call you out on it. Since you would be sitting next to each other, he could have at least quietly asked.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2008-10-22 21:37
Brenda is so right!! "You get more bee's with honey than with vineger".
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2008-10-22 23:40
If your schedule allows, please allow a good repair person to help you. You didn't say if the A was the only note sharp but if it is just that note it's fairly simple to lower that single note on your clarinet. If the low Bb, A and G are all sharp that might be more difficult but not impossible.
Then after your clarinet plays perfectly in tune with the strings, hit him in the head, the back of the head hurts the worst.
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Author: Amalton543
Date: 2008-10-23 00:26
Quick solution. If your A is actually sharp, try fingering the A along with your low F# key. If that doesn't do it, experiement. Low E, Low F, etc.
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