 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2008-10-09 01:29
I've been playing six months now. I recently changed teachers because I found a very qualified one much closer to my home. The first real change my new teacher made was to have me go to a no. 3 Vandoren reed (from a 2-1/2). Although I'd practiced some with a no. 3 before, I had not played at length with one, thus I find I cannot play as long before my embouchure gives way. Since I'm a retiree, I am able to practice several times per day though, albeit only short periods with a size 3 reed.
Today I tried something different. I started out with the no. 3 reed, but when my embouchure started to go downhill (but before my jaws started aching), I changed to a softer reed (a no. 2-1/2 student strength Legere, which is equivalent to a no. 2 Vandoren...I looked it up), and although I sacrificed good tone, I was able to practice fingering exercises significantly longer than I could possibly have done with the no. 3 reed.
I feel that I am truly not getting enough practice time in for learning fingering by my inability to play the no. 3 reed very long.
I will discuss all this with my teacher (lessons every other week now), but I wanted to see if I could also get your take on this. BTW, my mp is a Vandoren 5RV Lyre.
CarlT
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Author: FDF
Date: 2008-10-09 02:14
Carl,
I’m also a retiree, and returned to clarinet playing two years ago. (I’m sure many will discuss the variables inherent in reeds.) It took me a year and a half after returning to build up to a 3 reed. Older muscles, no matter where they are in our body, take more time to build and maintain.
You are in control of what you do. Your teacher offered a suggestion to help improve your playing. You don’t say why he recommended a 3, or how soon he expected you to be able to play one. Your approach of gradual progression is reasonable. However, how much better do you sound with a 3? Is it worth the effort? Do you believe that if you are able to sustain playing a 3 your playing will improve? Do you think the answer to these questions is, “Yes?” If so, then, keep your approach and eventually the 3 will work.
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Author: susieray
Date: 2008-10-09 02:29
If you get tired, you can also still practice fingering exercises without actually playing.....you don't have to blow into the clarinet to practice fingering.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-10-09 10:11
Well for someone only studied for 6 months I would recommend something like Rico Goldtone mouthpiece and Vandoren no.2 reeds or maybe even a softer one. The best thing you could do to strengthen your embouchure is playing long tones. Start you practicing with long tones. 5RV lyre is a fine mouthpiece if you have been playing for longer time and have build a stronger embouchure. Why struggling with a resistant setup when you are learning to get a good tone from the instrument. I mean your throat needs to be relaxed and the embouchure strong before you can move to a stronger reed. Well I've seen people here on the board recommend closed mouthpiece and no.3 reeds and then later move up to maybe no.4 reeds and from there you could change to a more opened mouthpiece(with the same reed strength for more projection). Well first of all I know of many professionals using no.3 reeds(even in the Vandoren Rue Lepic range which is softer than V-12) or no.3.5 strength. It all depends after all on the style that the player will develop. I think that long tones on a fairly open mouthpiece with a soft reed will develop a much stronger embouchure and better tone quality no matter if the player is going to play in the future on closed mouthpiece and no.5 reeds or so.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-10-09 12:39
It seems absurd to be recommending he change mouthpiece and reed setups when he is just starting out. His teacher should be making recommendations, based on careful observation of his progress and what equipment he is currently using. It may be that the #3 reed will work great for him, given a little time to get used to the strength of the reed.
Edited... Didn't notice the last line of Carl's post, where he listed his mouthpiece. Oops!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
Post Edited (2008-10-09 23:28)
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Author: Niente
Date: 2008-10-09 13:35
Although a higher level reed will improve your sound quality, and although practicing with said reed will improve your embouchure, I don't feel it will benefit you in your practices.
Think of clarinet playing as a workout for your embouchure. With that "Vandoren" 2, you will be lifting a smaller weight, but if you still tire your embouchure (muscles), you should still be building it up just as much as if you used the three. Certainly, this is in your best interest as you will have a longer period of time to practice.
However, I can't stress enough how much a higher level reed can improve sound quality and aid in catching a few of those trickier high notes!
Best of luck!!!
~ Niente
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-10-09 14:00
Niente wrote:
> Although a higher level reed will improve your sound quality,
Not necessarily - and they're not "higher level", just stiffer.
You can't tell without listening, can you?
The poster really needs to consult with his teacher about what's going on and what he's doing, since none of us has the priviledge of observing what's actually going on - especially important at this early stage.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-10-09 15:11
Because no two reeds really play the same, for most experianced players, it is necessary to go through an entire box--if not number of boxes--of reeds to find one or two that are the correct strength for their mouthpiece and embouchure. Just buying one or two "no. 3 Vandoran reeds" at the music store is relying too much on "the luck of the draw". Also, if you tried the Traditional (blue box) Vandoran #3 reed and it seemed too stiff, I would suggest trying the Vandoran V12 #3 which tends to run a bit softer. But, again, the best way is to buy a whole box and go through all the reeds, one by one, until you find the reed that is best for you.
You should be able to practice for an hour (or more) without tiring if your embouchure is in good shape. If you can do that with any particular reed strength and you are not satisfied with your tone quality--or you are having difficulty reaching the higher notes easily--perhaps trying a half-size stronger reed may be the answer. But it should play almost as easily as the reed you just came from. If your tone is suddenly "all breath" and it immediantly tires you out, then either you did not find the right reed or the strength change is still too much for you. In the end, clarinet playing should be fun and not frustration--and trying to play reeds that are just too stiff is just not the way to go. Like the weight training analogy given above, it is best to strenthen muscles by using lighter weights and training longer, than using megaton weights that you can only lift a couple of times. Length of quality clarinet practice time is more important than how hard your reed is. Hope this helps a bit.
BTW, I'm retired but have been playing most of my life and find it comfortable to play V12, 3.5s on a fairly open mouthpiece (Kaspar #14). All depends on how good "in shape" your chops are :>) Keep the faith.......
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Author: claritoot26
Date: 2008-10-09 19:27
Carl,
Welcome to clarinet playing. From your post, it sounds like you think your tone quality suffers when playing with the lower strength reed, but you can practice longer. I liked your idea about starting out with the 3, then switching to the softer one when you get tired. Even better, I think, would be to take a break and practice later in the day with the 3. It takes a little while to build those embouchure muscles, but if you and your teacher think the tone quality is greatly improved, it is worth the work. It just takes getting used to, so take some breaks. William also has a good suggestion about trying the V12 number 3. The blank of the V12 is thicker, but the tip is thinner, making it less resistant to blow. It seems like after 6 months, an adult student is probably ready to switch to a 3 on the 5RV lyre, but I might hold a younger student back on the 2.5, depending how well the embouchure is developing. But, everyone is different. My advice is to trust in your teacher and tell him/her about your difficulties, as your teacher may have a different suggestion. Long tones are great for developing embouchure and wind as well.
Lori
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-10-09 19:41
"the best way is to buy a whole box and go through all the reeds, one by one, until you find the reed that is best for you."
Well, that's the way Benny Goodman did it but today the ATG system makes every reed playable.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-10-09 19:46
Well I just have to point out that one of my all time favorite classical player is Reginald Kell and he used reeds #2.5 and a double lip embouchure.
I don't know if CarlT is some kind of genius but I sure now that that for average 6 months student "I" would not recommend hard rubber mouthpiece and reed #3. It's just like recommend a 6 months student to go out and buy Buffet R-13 clarinet or other professional quality instrument.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-10-09 20:45
"but today the ATG system makes every reed playable"
LOL--so does my Reed Wizard.
(well, ummm, almost "every")
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Author: Shi-Ku Chishiki
Date: 2008-10-10 00:37
PLEASE don't take this negatively, but how the heck can you practice fingering if you can't correlate where your fingers are to sound. I can't! Never have been.. and I started playing Bb clarinet over 50 plus years ago.
Oh sure, I can place my fingers on the keys in various positions, but without any sound to correlate to where my fingers are doesn't help me a bit.
I could sit down for one, two or three hours and "finger" the keys all I want and I would literally be wasting my time because it would have accomplished NOTHING for me!
I'm not saying it can't work for others but.....
Shi-Ku Chishiki ShiKu.Chishiki@Gmail.com
It's not the clarinet that makes the player, but the player that makes the clarinet!
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