 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: leonardA
Date: 2008-10-04 03:28
For some time my teacher has been telling me I need to take in less mouthpiece. However, I would start with the right amount of mouthpiece in but as I played, almost unconsciously more and more mouthpiece would slide in.
I came up with a solution that helps. I took one of those clear plastic mouthpiece paches and put in on the mouthpiece. Then I took a black rubber mp patch and cut a strip of it about 1/2 inch wide and stuck that over the plastic patch with the top of it where I want my teeth to be on the mp. When I put the mp in my mouth the teeth rest against the top of the strip and the rubber strip keeps my teeth from moving down the mp.
Thought this might help someone else. If anyone has any other ideas, I would love to hear them
Leonard
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-10-04 04:49
Well I had the same problem and I just practiced it and when I found that I had taken in too much mouthpiece I just formed my embouchure again. It also helped to play long tones in front of a mirror. This was a year ago and it took me about 4-5 months to get it secure so no problem anymore.
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Author: crnichols
Date: 2008-10-04 15:07
Leonard,
I use that as a teaching tool for students that take either too much or too little. It helps them find the right spot. The new position feels uncomfortable at first, so having the little reminder helps them get it a little bit quicker!
Christopher Nichols, D.M.A.
Assistant Professor of Clarinet
University of Delaware
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-10-04 15:20
Well my teacher plays with very little mouthpiece in but I use a tiny bit more. When take less mouthpiece in you have to support a lot with the diaphragm and I think that's gives me much better tone and control when well mastered. Sure you get more power by taking a bit more mouthpiece in but then the control will never be as good.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-10-06 21:23
There's just one place to put your lower lip: your lower teeth should be directly below the point where lay begins to curve away from the reed. If your lip is beyond that point, you're just pressing against the table. If it's short of that point, you're choking off the vibration.
At least until you get used to this, you can put a piece of adhesive tape on the vamp of the reed, just beyond where your lower lip goes.
Most people with standard "white person" lips put about half the red part of the lower lip over the teeth, but this depends on how thick your lips are. James Gholson, a wonderful player who is African-American and has protruding lips, puts only a small part of his lower lip over his teeth.
You'll make small adjustments to add or subtract resonance (i.e., high overtones). For example, when I need a penetrating quality, say to balance a thick ensemble while playing in the low register, I'll roll my lower lip out so that only a small area is over my teeth. The smaller, thinner lip cushion promotes the high partials. If I'm up high on a resonant note and want to stay under someone else's solo part, I'll roll my lower lip in over my teeth to make the tone less energetic.
Your upper teeth (or upper lip, if you play double lip) can go many places, depending mostly on anatomy. If you have a short jaw, you'll hold the instrument nearly vertical, and your upper lip will be near the mouthpiece tip. Those with a large jaw will hold the instrument out and have the upper lip almost above the lower lip.
Again, you vary this with different jaw positions to voice the tone for the chalumeau, clarion or altissimo
However, as Mark Nuccio emphasizes in his master classes, it's essential to begin with an embouchure that's the same way every time, and work off of that.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-10-06 23:03
Ken, Your placement recommendation really didn't work for me. It's pretty hard to tell exactly without mirrors or assistants etc but 17mm was too much mouthpiece/reed for me.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-10-06 23:24
Put a piece of paper in between your reed and mouthpiece and where it stops due to the curve of the mouthpiece is where you typically should put your bottom lip.
There are varying theories on where the top teeth should go.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-10-07 16:34
I can't imagine having too much mouthpiece in one's mouth --until the lower lip moves below the point where the reed departs from the table, and you no longer have control over the reed, and it squeaks.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-10-07 23:31
Well, my opinion is basically the same as it always is. It depends on the player, and the mouthpiece. Generally if a person has an over bite, or under bite, that is going to play a large part in determining how much mouthpiece and the angle they have to take. It also depends on the shape of the mouthpiece, some are wider or narrower then others. When I took some lessons with Robert Marcellus he spent an entire lesson with me experimenting with slightly different mouthpiece positions in my mouth, both the amount and the angle. By the time the lesson was over we both agreed I sounded better with a slight bit more mouthpiece in my mouth then I was taking and a slight more forward angle. I especially found this interesting because years before as a student I studied with Earl Bates at Aspen and he insisted I play with the mouthpiece almost flat against my chin and very little mouthpiece in my mouth, I simply could not play that way and my home teacher, Eric Simon then, had me go back to my “normal” angle. It all depends on the player and what they are looking for in sound and control. There is no one-way to play the clarinet, period. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 Listen to a little Mozart
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-10-08 00:26
Earl Bates was principal in St. Louis. There was a good photo of him on the cover of an old issue of Woodwind World some time in the 1960s, showing him playing as Ed described, with the instrument held nearly vertical.
Ken Shaw
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Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2008-10-08 01:16
This is a very interesting technical but not unimportant discussion. It was true in my experience that Marcellus took a very keen interest in his student's occlusion, angle, etc. After all, he knew from 20 years of dental problems caused by diabetes all of the intricacies involved. Authoritative he was in this area of teaching the craft and passed his knowledge along to all of his students with great care given to each and every individual.
The extreme "vertical" angle of all to many players of that time was a result of an overzealous adherence to Bonade's own rather "vertical" angle of his clarinet. After all Bonade had quite a protruding jaw and it almost looked like his clarinet WAS vertical while he played. Marcellus stressed that what was important was not how it looked but how it sounded/felt and what produced the best result for the individual.
At some of my 3 1/2 years worth of formal lessons at Northwestern, we would explore to the nth degree the intricacies of my particular situation with terrific results. But Marcellus always steered his analysis to the individual without relying on dogma. The only thing that he was reasonably sure about was an angle around 35 - 40 degrees from vertical IF the clarinetist's occlusion and lip structure was, as he said, "medium" in nature.
He realized that his own very large overbite made the angle of his clarinet look unusual to students and colleagues. But he always cautioned against strict imitation despite the intimations here and elsewhere that he was less than flexible in his teaching style.
Gregory Smith
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-10-08 16:02
Since starting to use a neck strap, I tend to let my clarinet's bell drop too low. (The strap pulls it down toward my chest, and it takes thumb pressure to push it away from my body.)
A small change in the angle of the instrument makes a dramatic difference in the sound of the horn!
We're talking SMALL here --a couple of degrees. With all the other things needing attention, I find that it is helpful to come back to my check-list and notice the amount of mouthpiece insertion and the angle from vertical (amongst others).
It is difficult (for me) to keep everything locked-in, but I'm solidifying.
Bob Phillips
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