 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Alan
Date: 2000-09-28 03:13
I bought a Korg DT3 tuner and was surprized to learn that when I played a note it registers lower on the tuner. Example I play an "open G" and it registers as an F. At first I thought something was wrong but after reading back posts I have learned this is normal but I don't understand why. Not being a professional can someone explain it to me in simple terms or point me to something I can read or both?
Also what is the significance of 440. The tuner, if I understand it's use, is able to listen to my note and determine the proper calibration (ie 440). Which note is the A4 as opposed to an A3 etc...
I appreciate your patience with a 47 yr old, soon to be 48, amateur. :^)
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-09-28 04:00
Your Bb clarinet is a transposing instrument, which means that your notes are all pitched one step lower than what is written on the staff. It is called a Bb instrument because when you play C as written on the staff your horn produces a Bb. I know that this is so, but I can't explain why this bewildering dumb ass system was adopted. I'm sure its so that a player can read and finger dissimilar instruments the same, or centers the notes on the staff better, or some equally lame benefit. It is definately an idea whose time will never come, and unfortunately, since it is universally adopted, it will never go.
I've got a similar question some of you may be able to answer: What is the best note for tuning a soprano Bb clarinet? Bands always seem to tune to concert Bb (clarinet C), but is that really a good choice for the clarinet? My R13 plays the midstaff C a bit sharp. If I tune to it some of my flatter notes may be tough to play on pitch. It is fairly easy to flatten a note a bit, not always so easy to lip up.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-09-28 11:49
Ken Rasmussen wrote:
>
> I know that this is so, but I can't explain why this
> bewildering dumb ass system was adopted. I'm sure its so that
> a player can read and finger dissimilar instruments the same,
> or centers the notes on the staff better, or some equally lame
> benefit. It is definately an idea whose time will never come,
> and unfortunately, since it is universally adopted, it will
> never go.
OK, smartypants. I'm going to make you play everything your band plays on an extended range C clarinet. Take a look at the keys of the music you'll be playing. Take a look at your clarinet fingering. See how many sharps & flats it has? See the "interesting" jumps on an instrument that has a register key that changes pitch by a twelfth? Have fun.
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Author: Roger
Date: 2000-09-28 12:09
Mark is right.
The Bb clarinet was developed to avoid playing flats---The Bb clarinet transposes by adding 2 sharps and raising a step.
There is an A clarinet that is pitched 1/2 tone lower than the Bb. A C sounds as an A. It is useful in avoiding sharps, but generally composers write for it because it sounds a little different. Stravinski wrote a piece consisting of three movements for the unaccompanied clarient. He specified certain movements to be played by the clarinet in A
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Author: DLE
Date: 2000-09-28 12:45
Ken, When I tune my clarinet with my piano accompanist + teacher before a duet, we tune to 3 (Sometimes 4 different notes), which are usually the all-fingered B, open G, and normal C (Chalmeau range). Sometimes we also play the higher C in the top range as well, and find the right balance.
Hope this helps.
DLE.
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Author: Pam
Date: 2000-09-29 00:35
Usually our church orchestra tunes to a concert "A", which for us Bb instruments is a "B". But, I will say that I do listen as a rehersal continues because as the horn warms up more I will tend to be sharper.
I think the tuner is nice to practice long tones with and listen and work on embouchure. Usually I need to loosen my mouth up with my current setup to be more in tune.
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Author: Ken Rasmussen
Date: 2000-09-29 02:09
Well, I was being a smarty pants all right, but it has to do with my background which no longer includes formal band playing. I get together in small groups and play by ear, so I just figure out what key we're in and go for it. From my perspective it is unhandy when someone is calling out chords, or key changes, to have to think to myself, "Lets see, key of E, that's my F#." There is no question that having an A and a Bb clarinet would be handy. For my purposes, if I'm learning a tune, and the fingerings are awkward, I go up or down an octave. That usually makes it easier. Then, I can go back later and work out the awkward fingerings if I want. I don't play very technical stuff. That helps too.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-09-29 02:56
Ken Rasmussen wrote:
>
> I get together in small groups and play by ear, so I
> just figure out what key we're in and go for it. From my
> perspective it is unhandy when someone is calling out chords,
> or key changes, to have to think to myself, "Lets see, key of
> E, that's my F#."
That's your problem. If you're truly playing by ear (something I did on bass for many years - even got to play studios for a while) then the key is irrelevant. You listen for the changes and comp. I never thought of the key - I just played the music. If you practice playing by ear enough you won't be thinking of fingering at all - you'll just automagically play the right notes.
I played enough rhythm & lead guitar back then that I could read the chords off the guitarists I'd be playing with. Then you learn to read charts (which mostly just had the changes & "ad lib." written for the bass parts anyway :^)
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Author: Jim
Date: 2000-09-29 03:06
On the positive side, needing to transpose sharpens musicianship skills. Those of us playing b flat (and a, e flat, f etc.) instruments in ensembles are forever transposing the director's comments and questions (such as "do you have a concert b flat there?" etc.) Transposing music itself is easy today with notation programs (Finale etc.)
I suspect bands tune to b flat concert (c for us) because these instruments (trumpets and clarinets) form a majority in many bands. Orchestras and small groups nearly always tune to A. Most of the accompaniasts I have worked with automatically hit A. Interesting to do when I accompany our church choir, the organist plays "fill music" just before the anthem and keeps returning to the A in which I join him to check tuning. No one in the congregation has ever caught on that I know of.
In our "modern day" technology can save some transposing when playing C music with a keyboard, digital piano or electronic organ as most of these have a transposing feature and can match us. (Have to be careful if singers are also involved as to not take it out of their range(s). (Most of the church anthems with instrumental parts have them written for flute, recorder or strings, all C instruments.)
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Author: Sara
Date: 2000-09-30 04:12
I actually like my Korg DT3 tuner, its very easy to use- green is good red is bad. Its quick and easy to use. I used to have one of those with the needle but they fluctuate so easily it was hard to distinguish right from wrong.
Sara
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Author: Alan
Date: 2000-10-05 08:50
On a Bb Clarinet what note is considered A4?
If an A4 is considered as 440, is that 440 Hz? Why does the tuner have the ability to change the 440 to 441 or 442 etc...
You have explained to me that a Bb plays a "step" lower, what is the definition of a step? Some times when I play a note the tuner shows it as the note "below" what I am playing but sometimes it shows it as the sharp of the next note down which in my uneducated mind seems to be only a half-step. I know it's not a half-step from your postings but could you explain a little more or direct me someplace?
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-10-05 23:18
Alan wrote:
>
>On a Bb Clarinet what note is considered A4?
> If an A4 is considered as 440, is that 440 Hz? Why does the
> tuner have the ability to change the 440 to 441 or 442 etc...
>
> You have explained to me that a Bb plays a "step" lower, what
> is the definition of a step? Some times when I play a note the
> tuner shows it as the note "below" what I am playing but
> sometimes it shows it as the sharp of the next note down which
> in my uneducated mind seems to be only a half-step. I know
> it's not a half-step from your postings but could you explain a
> little more or direct me someplace
A little basic music theory here. Some notes have more than one name. For example, Bb is also named A#. The tuners that I am familiar with will display the name that uses the # notation.
To understand a step, look at a piano keyboard. Look at all the keys both black and white (ignore the fact that the white keys extend further). Two keys sided by side, regardless of color, are a 1/2 step apart. Two have steps make a whole step.
So let's use some notes. On a piano, C is a white key. The next key to the right is black and is C# (this can also be called Db). This is a 1/2 step. Now move to the next key. It is again white and is the note D. From D to C is a whole step. Now let's start again on the C key and move to the left. The very next key is a white key and is the note B. This is 1/2 step. Now move to the left again. The next key is black and is Bb (this can also be called A#). From C to Bb is a whole step.
Whether a note is called A# or Bb depends on the key that you are playing in and is probably a bit more theory than you are ready for at this time.
If you are not familiar with a piano, here is an example from singing. When you sing a "normal" scale, you go like this:
Do re mi fa sol la ti do
"Do" to "re" is a whole step.
"Re" to "mi" is a whole step.
"Mi" to "fa" is a 1/2 step.
"Fa" to "sol" is a whole step.
"Sol" to "la" is a whole step.
"La" to "ti" is a whole step.
"Ti" to "do" is a 1/2 step.
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Author: Alan
Date: 2000-10-06 08:33
Thank you Dee, that was very helpful. I still don't understand why it's a half-step from B to C but a whole-step from C to D. I guess that will come with time.
Are there any good books to read that will help explain that?
What is an A4?
Can you have an A4 that's 440 (hz I assume) and another A4 that's 442, on a different instrument? I would have thought that a certain note would have a certain frequency like 440 hz and that couldn't change else it would be a different note.
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