 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: srattle
Date: 2008-09-29 20:24
Hello, and sorry if this has been asked many times on here, but I tried searching the forum but couldn't find what I needed. If someone knows of a previous thread, please do link me to it
I am looking to buy an e-flat clarinet, and I have a few questions.
I have been playing on a fairly decent buffet C-12 but it is not really something good enough for me to want to buy.
I feel like I might be tired of the ever present tuning problems with Buffet clarinets in general, but I don't know much about their high end Eb instruments.
I am looking for an instrument that firstly tunes well, and am willing to pay for an instrument if it is a real beauty. A nice sound is of course nice, but 1st for me is intonation.
I am very interested at what other brands might be able to give me what I am looking for, and also what the keywork on other brands of eefers are like.
Any helpful information would be wonderful. I live in Germany now, and there is really not that much information here about Böhm clarinets, especially not the high ones.
Thanks for your replies
Sacha
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Author: srattle
Date: 2008-09-29 20:27
Sorry, I would also like to mention that I am not new to the clarinet, nor am I particularly new to the eflat.
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2008-09-29 20:42
Here's my two cents:
All the Buffet Ebs are good. It really comes down to how much you want to spend and how hard you want to work. The R13 has a wickedly sharp upper clarion and is slightly more erratic in pitch and response than the RC. The RC is more tonally consistent and is more easily tuned than the R13. The best of the bunch is the RC Prestige. It has the best of everything. My only complaint on that horn is the high D. On mine it was too sharp with the Eb key and stuffy and unstable without. It might have just been my particular horn. I resorted to using a lot of open Ds when I could.
I actually sold my Prestige and bought a Yamaha. I like it better. It is half the price and plays a lot easier. For me it is easier to tune, the tone is smoother, and it has an amazing altissimo. It is shockingly easy to pop out high Gs and higher.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-09-29 21:48
I also own a Yamaha 681 effer and like it's tone quality, fairly even scale and intonation. I use a Charles Bay custom mpc, V12 3.5 Bb reeds (cut down to fit), a Winslow ligature and a Clark Fobes extension. It should be noted, however, that although the intonation from low E up through C6 is "right on", the notes above need to be played in tune--same as with most eb clarinets.
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Author: saxlite
Date: 2008-09-29 22:48
I like my Patricola- it is beautifully made, plays very well and and costs a lot less than the Boofies.
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-09-29 23:05
I usually recommend the Buffet E-11 for anyone who wants a very good Eb-clarinet with pro qualities without having to spend too much money. It is by far the best Eb next to the RC Prestige.
Alphie
Clarinet/Eb-clarinet RSPO
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-09-30 01:34
Have not played the Yamahas but have played the various Buffets and also a LeBlanc and a Selmer. Each has a different personality. Bruce Yeh plays a Yamaha though and his sound is beautiful. Of course he might could play great music on a Vito or one of the Chinese clarinets on Ebay!
I play a Buffet Prestige RC now and like it very much and many of my colleagues who have played the horn also liked it very much. My horn is very much in tune with itself and has the ability to play the altissimo notes SOFTLY. That is a real help. With a Fobes mouthpiece and extension, you can make some very pretty music.
The one downer is the price, especially now with the dollar down to the Euro. However I've owned a very respectible R13 and that is a little closer to affordable.
Good luck!
Eefer guy
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Author: Alseg
Date: 2008-09-30 02:18
The Selmer Recital Eb is a sweet horn.
Former creator of CUSTOM CLARINET TUNING BARRELS by DR. ALLAN SEGAL
-Where the Sound Matters Most(tm)-
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Author: marshall
Date: 2008-09-30 06:36
I would like to put it out there now that not all Buffet Ebs are good instruments. I have played a couple AWFUL Buffets. I now own an older R13 Eb (I got used...SN 177xxx) and it's infinately better than the university Buffet Eb I was using until recently.
Also, you cannot expect to find an Eb that is as in tune as your Bb or A...that is simply unrealistic. No Eb is that in tune.
I also had an opportunity to play a broken in, well maintained, 4 (I think he said) year old RC Prestige Eb clarinet, and I can tell you that the upper clarion being whack out of tune is NOT fixed on the RC's. The guy who's RC Prestige I tried said that he doesn't use the register key from about clarion G to altissimo E. This usually helps the problem, but a lot of it is in the voicing.
I know a lot of Eb players prefer the smoother, less-harsh timbre of Patricola Ebs. They to tend to produce a much sweeter tone than most other Ebs you hear, but I don't like the feel of them (my teacher in highschool succesfully assimilated me into the Buffet cult :p).
As with shopping for any other clarinet, just try as many instruments of as many models and makes as you can. I lucked out in finding a very good instrument right from the get-go, but I have a feeling that this is a very rare experience, especially when it comes to Ebs.
To anyone else out there who is an expert (of sorts) when it comes to Eb who disagrees with me...please let me know. I'm relatively new to playing Eb myself.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-09-30 12:03
"No Eb is that in tune."
And there are no absolutes, either! ![[tongue]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie6.gif)
While the Eefer is a difficult instrument, a good one in the hands of a good player can be a wonderful thing.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-09-30 12:45
If you want to spend a lot and get real quality, I recommend Schwenk and Seggelke. I have tried them many times and I think they are the best clarinets I have ever played. I would have them now if not for the price.
<www.handmadeclarinets.de>
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Author: Fishamble
Date: 2008-09-30 14:02
"I like my Patricola- it is beautifully made, plays very well and and costs a lot less than the Boofies."
I agree with this. Plus, their factory is in northern Italy, so you might be able to go there from Germany to choose an instrument. The bros. Patricola really encouraged me to visit them when I was ordering, but unfortunately I couldn't at the time.
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2008-09-30 14:23
I second the Paricola recommendation. I had one and it was a wonderful horn. I sold it because I wanted the powerful sound of the Buffet.
As for not using the register key,... well that is just simply good technique for playing the Eb. Every Eb I have played has a sharp clarion and one has to work to keep it in tune. That being said, there are some horns where tuning that region is easier.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-09-30 15:36
BTW, I sit next to a clarinetist in our BJSO that is playing the Shostakovich 5th on a Patricola Eb. He is a Buffet player and says he "hates" the P, but the truth is he sounds wonderful on it and plays it absolutely in tune. Again, I like my Yamaha 681, but if I were buying another effer, I would definately try the Pat's, as well as the Selmers--and then pick the one that plays best for me. BTW, I once had a chance to buy a Leblanc Eb that played wonderfully, but before I could actually buy it, our music store learned that it was a stolen instrument from a state college. As always, buyer beware!!
Post Edited (2008-09-30 18:06)
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-09-30 17:47
Actually my Buffet Prestige is in tune even without any trick fingerings and certainly not minus the octave key. The only one I had to resort to that technique was on a very old Selmer. I do have a Fobes barrel and Fobes Eb extension but i can sit with the tuner and play to G#6 and every note is within a few cents of being in tune. I'll admit many others are not as good. Also this particular Eefer plays the altissimo softly and sweetly.
Me thinks the problem in the Shostakovich #5 is the Eefer playing the same notes as the piccolo in the first movement on the descending notes from high G. Even in good orchestras like Montreal I've heard that particular phrase wretchedly out of tune, probably because the same notes that have a tendency to play flat on the Eefer are the same ones that are a tad sharp on the piccolo. The more tricky running part in the third (or is it the 2nd?) movement I've never noticed being out of tune. That is a great lick for the Eefer.
Now I have that solo going through my head and I'm playing "air Eefer"!
Eefer guy
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Author: William
Date: 2008-09-30 18:14
Effer vs picc--unison is certainly not a "given". Apparently, Shostakovich skipped that orchestration class.....LOL
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-09-30 22:29
Sacha, I’m responsible for Eb-clarinet in a Scandinavian philharmonic orchestra. I don’t think you should give up the idea of getting a Buffet. Before I got this job I free-lanced for many years and specialized more or less on the Eb. At that time, being a poor free-lancer I was playing a good but cheep Noblet Artist. The intonation of this instrument was excellent. I had to use very few “trick”-fingerings to play in tune. The natural sound of this instrument however was a bit thin and a little penetrating for the ears so I had to carefully choose mouthpiece, reeds and ligature to compensate for this. I had a few MPs with a relatively small opening, white master reeds and a string ligature. A metal ligature was out of the question. I have recorded pieces like Berlioz Sinfonie Fantastique, Shostakovich 5 and Shostakovich ballet “The Golden Age” with a lot of Eb solos using this instrument with a good result.
When I got this job I tried a few different Ebs and decided that the RC Prestige had by far the best sound in the orchestra. The intonation is good except for the altissimo register that has a tendency to be sharp on c# and d. For the rest intonation is good up to Bb6. Higher than that I’ve never had to play so far in the orchestra. To solve the problem with the sharp notes I experimented with longer and a little wider register tubes and barrel lengths and shapes to find a good combination. Guy Chadash made two barrels for me of which I’m using one. I managed to find a combination that at least reduced the problem and now it’s possible to play in tune with not too much effort. Normally I play the D without the Eb key unless the D is the 5th in the chord. The D is not too stuffy without the key. The C# is easy to shadow a little with the left index finger but that’s what I do on the Bb and A as well if necessary. Because of the longer register tube the throat Bb is just about up to pitch. If I have to raise it I use the lower side keys. The side Bb is perfect.
What I’m trying to say is that there is no such thing as a perfect Eb clarinet. Decide what sound concept you want and choose a brand that satisfies you. For me the RC Prestige had the most full body sound. I got it at the factory but I only got two instruments to try. For the rest one has to customize the instrument to your own satisfaction and try to solve the problems that come with it. And then there is practicing practising practising. To play the Eb clarinet on a high level there are no shortcuts and I don’t think you expected that anyway.
Good luck,
Alphie
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-10-01 12:06
Alphie,
I found a similar Noblet that I played for many years in college and it was a nice horn too. A friend has it now although she is a little scared of Eefer in general so it doesn't get the use I gave it. One of the other Eefers in the symphony has one that he likes too. He thinks my Buffet Prestige is a little too soft for some of the more outrageous solos, like in El Salon Mexico. I do have to push a bit on that one.
When a prominent clarinetist tried my Eefer he loved it too. Guess I'm blessed with a great one. Mine will play to high Bb with ease but the high B and C want to "break up", playing an undertone. What fingerings do you use on those notes? I have had quite a few high A's and one Bb but never anything higher in a concert piece so have never worried too much about those notes. Oddly enough I can play those notes on the bass and alto clarinets easier than the Eefer. Of course they're an octave or more lower too.
Eefer guy
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Author: Alphie
Date: 2008-10-01 17:29
For B6 and C6 I use normal fingerings. The C hasn't come out yet thou ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif)
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Author: Ebclarinet1
Date: 2008-10-01 21:14
Ok I went home and took out a bit stiffer reed and the B came out, but like you not the C. Maybe I should see if i have any of those old VanDoren #5 reeds around here. It might come out then! Of course I might have all the dogs in the neighborhood whining if I did hit it@!
Eefer guy
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