 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-09-27 13:45
Well, he is 85 years old. His sound is pretty much what you hear from Eastern European folk clarinetists. And remember that the hype is an amateurish translation.
But his Mozart . . . as they say in the Pepe le Pew Loony Tunes, AIEEE, LE SKONK, LE STEENK INCROYABLE.
Ken Shaw
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-09-27 14:27
Somebody should send a copy of this Mozart recording to Dan Leeson...
Tell him, "See, Dan, identifiable national schools of playing do exist!"
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-09-27 15:46
As I've said before, it's not his attempts at Western Music that make Tale the master. The style of Macedonian playing that he is best known for is really really difficult! And he plays it so well!
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-09-27 16:16
Katrina wrote:
> As I've said before, it's not his attempts at Western Music
> that make Tale the master. The style of Macedonian playing
> that he is best known for is really really difficult! And he
> plays it so well!
I've been listening to some of his Macedonian stuff on iTunes--you're right, he's really good when he's in his idiom (which *sounds* like it would be hard to play).
There's an interesting clip on his website (http://www.taleognenovski.com.mk/) of him playing Mozart (and some other classical stuff) in a more conventional style with a piano (VERY poor recording quality, though--probably a very old recording). Very different from the recording on iTunes (but still with a slightly "Balkanized" flavor).
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-09-27 16:25
Check out his web site for a hyperbolic fantasy so ridiculous that you will doubt your senses. They boast (among other things) about his playing the "fastest" Mozart concerto ever played. Still it is a very amusing or sad (depending on your mood) read.
Maybe something was lost in translation....
www.taleognenovski.com.mk/
Clarinet Redux
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-09-27 16:46
DavidBlumberg wrote:
> Pavel Cebzan is the real deal.
I agree he's good. But isn't he Romanian?
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-09-27 17:33
It is not a similar style. Macedonian music is very different from Romanian music. Tale's old. His music is not the same as what Macedonian musicians are even doing now.
Compare an older Bulgarian clarinetist (Georgi Koev) with the well-known Ivo Papasov and you'll see what I mean. For an even better comparison, take old recordings of instruments like gaida and kaval and compare those with clarinet recordings of the same vintage...
David, I respect your knowledge of classical music and your opinions on many subjects, but calling it "simple screwing around like a 7th grader with fingers" is not helpful, nor is it any more than an opinion written as a fact.
p.s. I actually don't even like Tale's playing myself as much as I do others', but I do acknowledge that he's a master of a specific style of a specific time in Macedonian folk music.
Post Edited (2008-09-27 17:53)
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-09-27 18:00
I'm certainly no expert, but from the music I have heard, Macedonian music sounds much more rhythmically complex like Bulgarian music is ("aksak" rhymthmic patterns--alternating 2s and 3s--are more prevalent). The Romanian music I've heard is much more rhythmically Western, where they stick to regular rhythms.
I'm sure that's a very crude generalization--but there is a definite difference in styles.
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2008-09-27 19:58
While it might sound like screwing around and while we respect him for his work with Macedonian folk music, he really has no business recording the Mozart like that and I think we can all agree here. Here's an excerpt from his website:
"He is the greatest clarinetist, reed piper, zourlist and small bagpiper of all time, demonstrating unique skill, a wealth of invention, amazing improvisational virtuosity and outstanding musical competence in all areas of music. At 34 Tale Ognenovski has arrived as an internationally acclaimed virtuoso. Tale Ognenovski won top honors on October 11, 2003 at Macedonian Parliament as the Winner of 11 Oktomvri Award, the highest and the most prestigious national award in Republic of Macedonia."
Get him in his idiom (as someone else put it) and this might be a fair statement. But based on his Mozart, I wonder what the music scene in Macedonia is like.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-09-27 20:03
>> But his Mozart . . . as they say in the Pepe le Pew Loony Tunes, AIEEE, >> LE SKONK, LE STEENK INCROYABLE"
As cautious I am re judging other musicians, I have to agree. Perhaps my ear is focused on classic or swiss traditionals.
--
Ben
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-09-27 22:41
tictactux wrote:
> >> But his Mozart . . . as they say in the Pepe le Pew Loony
> Tunes, AIEEE, >> LE SKONK, LE STEENK INCROYABLE"
>
> As cautious I am re judging other musicians, I have to agree.
> Perhaps my ear is focused on classic or swiss traditionals.
>
Given the tone of his website, perhaps the idea is that you'll think his own concerto (which is on the same album) sounds better than Mozart's. 
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-09-27 23:04
I'm sure there's a deeply profound and intelligent discussion waiting to be had on his interpretation of the Mozart concerto, taking various environmental and sociological factors into account in the process, and no doubt it will be a lengthy and rather taxing discussion that may or may not have a conclusion that everyone will be able to agree on.
But that aside, listening to it just cracks me up!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-09-27 23:08
If the website were humble about it then it wouldn't get the hard time that it gets. Ya know, little old man who lives in the mountains who never heard Mozart in his life attempts to give the world his interpretation of it, etc........
But it's not.
I'd bet a druggie would have a good time listening to his Mozart though .
His ethnic stuff is fine and certainly in line I guess. But anything but genius.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-09-28 00:02
David, if you had taken the time to look into the part I wrote about his ethnic playing as being CONTEMPORARY MACEDONIAN FOLK MUSIC NOT BEING WHAT HE'S DOING, then your statement regarding his genius is sadly misinformed. He's a master of an older style of Macedonian music uninfluenced by the likes of Ivo Papasov, Western jazz, and, yes, even uninfluenced by Mozart.
Musicians like the Macedonian Rom clarinetist Ismael Lumanovski and the Slavic Macedonian Goce Dimovski prove this...
I'm afraid I can't come up with any other analogies which will be easily grasped. If I do I will post back.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-09-28 00:31
That's fine, but I've heard many other ethnic style players who were the heck of a lot better. I don't have a single clue what Macedonian Folk Music is specifically, but if it sounds good it's good. (according to the Duke at least)
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-09-28 02:02
Does that phrase still apply if you don't think Duke Ellington's stuff sounds good?
;)
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-09-28 06:25
Totally speaking from an "artistic freedom" perspective, is this all that different from jazz/rock renditions of Bach or Beethoven?
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Author: redwine
Date: 2008-09-28 12:06
Hello,
If you don't think Duke Ellington sounds good, you haven't listened to Duke Ellington.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2008-09-28 12:15
Just one little question? How many players on this list have one CD out or cuts on Itunes? Cut this guy all you want, but he's doing it.
CDs are interesting any can make one, but few people do. Of the people that do at least attempt making one, even fewer will be successful in selling them.
Tom
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-09-28 12:30
I see your point, Tom, and I'll cut the guy considerable slack for actually doing it.
What makes me furrow my brows is the use of superlatives. Quote:
He is the greatest clarinetist, reed piper, zourlist and small bagpiper of all time, demonstrating unique skill, a wealth of invention, amazing improvisational virtuosity and outstanding musical competence in all areas of music. Doesn't need to be "hapless attempt at playing Mozart", but a touch of meekness wouldn't be negatively received.
--
Ben
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-09-28 12:41
http://music.download.com/davidblumberg there Tom.
The David Trio was from way, way back (different sound now) - Brahms is recent and much more reflective of current sound.
I'd put it up on Itunes, but don't care about promoting my own stuff so it's there for free.
I'd rather promote somebody else.
The guy's ethnic style is very good (from the link above), but the Mozart with all of the "greatest in the world" garbage is what is getting the attention.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2008-09-28 12:46)
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2008-09-28 13:03
Hell I want the name off his publicist! That is the longest website I've ever scrolled through!
I wonder if the Drum track to the Mozart is available through music minus 1? or if that MP3 is available as a ringtone.
Remember everyone, if a CD features mostly clarinet music on it, sell 250 units thats considered a gold CD, 500 and it's platinum. 1000 and let's face it, you've sold out!
Tom Puwalski, who want's to sellout but is just waiting for the price to go back up.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-09-28 13:28
Tom Puwalski wrote:
> Hell I want the name off his publicist! That is the longest
> website I've ever scrolled through!
Talk to his son then
I wish my sons would build me up that way!
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-09-28 13:37
"Remember everyone, if a CD features mostly clarinet music on it, sell 250 units thats considered a gold CD, 500 and it's platinum. 1000 and let's face it, you've sold out!"
---------------------------------------------------------
Tom, you mean that we don't do it for the Money?? 
I remember being told by a pretty big name artist that from the Record Label Royalties a check would come about every 3 months for
$17........
I guess that's a steak dinner at Bonanza
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-09-28 14:19
"If you don't think Duke Ellington sounds good, you haven't listened to Duke Ellington."
From a totally artistic perspective, it is all opinion. The adjective "good" is, in and of itself, an opinion.
The phrase, "If it sounds good it is good" really means "If it sounds good to you, it is good to you." I am sure we have all played a recording (that we thought was great) for a friend and their reaction was less than we had expected.
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-09-29 03:52
Emma Johnson has sold, at last count, nearly 300,000 clarinet CDs.
I don't think she's sold out yet...
Clarinet Redux
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Author: clarinetist04
Date: 2008-09-29 04:10
I stand by my first comment that he has no business recording the Mozart like that but I will at least give him credit that he is an excellent Macedonian folk artist. The two youtube links are pretty interesting and decent listening.
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Author: Kalakos
Date: 2008-09-30 00:11
Listen to Katrina. She understands what Tale was doing. Admittedly, he is very old, and doesn't sound like he once did. I remember hearing about him when I was a teen ager (many years ago); they referred to him as "Maestro Tale" (the master). While his style is not my favorite, and he plays a Boehm (I'm a Greek musician; we use Albert/Simple system clarinets and play a different style), I have always had to admit that he was great in his idiom. And that's probably the problem here. He is really out of his idiom. We would probably react similarly if we listened to a classically trained clarinetist trying to play Slavic Macedonian, Turkish, or Greek folk music. It's all a matter of "context" and culture.
Respectfully,
John
[ Snipped - GBK ]
Kalakos
Kalakos Music
http://www.TAdelphia.com
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