 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: SteviZutko
Date: 2008-09-24 19:05
Hi all-
I'm a clarinetist and a high school band director, but I have little experience playing bass. We're badly in need of a couple new bass clarinets at my school, and I'm hoping to get some recommendations from those of you who either play or repair basses.
As far as school instruments go, what would you recommend that would not only play well but also hold up to school use? I'd love to get a really nice one, but in reality our budget will probably only cover lower-end models.
Any suggestions?
Thanks!
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-09-24 20:06
Jupiter, Vito, Yamaha or Selmer (USA) plastic basses are the standard ones used by schools and education authorities. All are built to low Eb.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-09-24 20:26
I have found the Yamaha student bass clarinet to be a very nice instrument. It plays very nicely. It is very well designed/built and holds up well. It would be my top choice (in fact, it is what I have recommended and purchased for schools).
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-09-24 20:40
Hi Stevi - To help start/open-up the B C info "flow" we have on this BBoard, I have played [and repaired some] basses [and altos] in the latter part of my cl playing career so have some "feel" for this speciality. The major makers {Boehm systems} of the newer "student" models are Selmer [Bundy and Selmer USA] and Leblanc [Vito and Noblet] and Yamaha, plus the Lyrique [by Ridenour]. There are still a few "intermediate" models made, the professionsl models [quite expensive] are distinguishable by much manufacturing care and additional keywork, particularly by "Double Register Keying". I recommend a bit of study/research here and on the Bass_Clarinet Yahoo Group, [also auction sites]where there is a wealth of info available. We have many band/orch. directors who can, and I'm sure will, help you. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-09-25 02:41
others willl disagree with me,
however,
do your bass students a favor,
and get a few buffet Prestige Bass clarinets - low C models if you can afford them.
Yup, I know they're pricey, but my bass students at several high schools play them and love them - and are doing great since they have such fine instruments to work with.
note - this is for concert use - not for marching
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-09-25 02:53
Yeah, you won't be able to march with Buffet Prestige low C basses as they don't have lyre attachments. But if you want basses for marching, get Selmer Privilege low C basses as these have lyre attachments.
He sits and waits for them to take the bait...
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: davidsampson
Date: 2008-09-25 03:25
My Privilege (owned by my high school) has no such attachment :-(
I would definitely recommend springing for the better bass if you can. That bass will probably get used for quite some time, so you might as well make the most of it (the motto of my bd's.) It will improve the sound of your ensemble, as well.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-25 04:14
You might also use the search function to find comments on Tom Ridenour's instruments.
They will cost far less than a pro horn without the worry of cracking. The tradeoff in his bass clarinets has apparently been keywork durability...but you might have that problem with any of the student horns.
I do have Ridenour's Lyrique Bb clarinet, and it plays extremely well (with me playing it).
How many horns are you looking to aquire?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-09-25 05:16
The student Yamaha is a good instrument and probably what I would recommend if you can't afford more. The Buffets and Selmers are a good recommendation too. The question is what your budget is, how many instruments you need/want to buy, and where do you prefer to compromise (quality vs. quantity)?
>> from those of you who either play or repair basses <<
So those who do both can't try to help...? 
Chris, are you sure about the lyre holder?? None of the Privileges I saw (many) had a lyre holder, as far as I remember.
Nitai
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Author: EEBaum
Date: 2008-09-25 05:36
Equally important, make sure you keep the basses in good repair. About half the people I know who have played bass thought they were horrible at the instrument, when it was most often the instrument's fault. They are notorious for getting themselves out of adjustment.
-Alex
www.mostlydifferent.com
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-09-25 07:03
That's an important point - repairs.
Repairs on a costly instruments aren't exactly cheap either - not the work as such, but the prices of spare parts. You definitely need to calculate that into the budget.
My recommendation would be the Yamaha 221, followed by the Selmer 1430P (aka Bundy). I have a 30yo Artley (Bundy stencil) and it's built like a tank. From what its case looks like, it's been through very rough times, and yet it plays very well.
--
Ben
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-09-25 11:03
What is the Jupiter copied from....if anything? I have the impression that their saxes are being well received.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-09-25 12:17
The Jupiter looks like its based on the Yamaha 221 bass.
"Chris, are you sure about the lyre holder?? None of the Privileges I saw (many) had a lyre holder, as far as I remember."
Oh right - they've stopped fitting lyre attachments now (I had a closer look at a photo) - the previous basses all had them. I found it strange that they fitted lyre attachments to low C basses, A basses and basset horns when these are the least likely instruments that are going to be marched with.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-09-25 12:24
> The Jupiter looks like its based on the Yamaha 221 bass.
Yamaha 220, I'd say.
--
Ben
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-25 12:28
I haven't played a Jupiter bass recently, but my impressions of their clarinets in the past years has been steadily going up.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-09-25 12:52
One complaint with using a top of the line Buffet or Selmer bass in a public school setting is that those horns are SO easy to throw out of adjustment. Even in the hands of a pro they seem to always need looking after. In a school setting, unless there was a really exceptional student, the instrument would likely not receive the care or respect that is needed. In most school settings, you may not have the budget or time to regularly send it out when that complex mechanism is out out adjustment. In addition, Unless you have money to burn, I feel you get more bang for your buck for a well built solid instrument that is meant to withstand the abuse they generally take in schools.
I have seen Selmer saxes (including some vintage Mark VI's), Selmer low C basses, Laubin oboes, vintage Conn 8-D horns among others that were in public schools that have been abused and unappreciated. Frankly, it makes me want to cry to see instruments in this condition.
BTW- Selmer 37 bass clarinet does not have a lyre attachment. I believe it was on all previous models.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-25 13:06
I hesitated to add the Ed's comments, which I think are right on the money. If I was a band director and I had Buffet 1193 or great Selmer in my arsenal, I'm not certain that I would put it in the hands of just ANY student. And because of that I think that you should keep them off your list.
That being said there are several schools in No. Va that do have the horns and the students use them...I'm just not sure what condition they're in.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Michelle
Date: 2008-09-25 14:06
If you're not set on going NEW, you could consider some used LeBlanc wood basses. I think most are as durable as plastic student models and yet give a student a "feel" of more professionalism.
Are we talking High School or Junior High/Middle School age?
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-09-25 14:19
The OP said High School, and many public schools do not condone or approve the purchase of used instruments...depends on the district and their policies.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-09-25 14:21
"That being said there are several schools in No. Va that do have the horns and the students use them...I'm just not sure what condition they're in."
Last year while in Portsmouth VA, the IC Norcom band had a Yamaha 221 bass (the RH main action screw came undone, but I managed to run backstage to get my emergency repair kit and tighten it up just as the concert started), and the tenor sax player was playing on a beaten up old MkVI - even more beaten up than the ex-Royal Marines one I was playing on!
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: SteviZutko
Date: 2008-09-25 19:34
Thanks for all the input, it's really helpful!
Yes, the horns would be for concert use only - we actually rent a couple Jupiters for the marching season. I haven't been completely thrilled with them, since they seem to go out of whack pretty easily - but then again, that seems to be a bigger issue with bass clarinets in general as opposed to Bb's.
As far as budget goes, I'm actually in the process of applying for some grants to help purchase some better school instruments - we have an ok supply budget, but we can't really afford to get large-ticket items and still buy the music, drum heads, and other consumable items that we need to get through the year. I'd love to get at least one nicer horn if I can get the funding, but my guess is I'd be best off finding something that's more of an intermediate model. What I'm looking for is something affordable (less than $4000) that will stay in good repair - as much as any bass clarinet does - and have solid intonation and a good sound.
Buying used *would* be a viable option - we actually have purchased most of our marching brass and mallet instruments used from different drum corps, and we've never had any problems with that.
Thanks again for all the recs!
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-09-26 02:09
Hi again Stevi - I've been following this thread, hoping that someone might discuss the issue of "double register keying" for improving the [often poor] sounding/response of the lower clarion notes, B nat. up to Eb on inexpensive B C's.. On the above-referenced Selmer 9's neck is the is the high register key, which, for me, separates a good-playing bass from many of mediocre [student] quality . My own B C is Selmer's next model, a V series [late 1960's] and it took me quite a few years and a few basses to get a good player. David Spiegelthal [and others] are knowledgable here and I hope some of our expert B C'ers will comment. I would suggest your buying at least one of this pro/semi-pro design-structure insts. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: OldClarinetGuy
Date: 2008-09-26 04:26
I have not seen any high school music brought for lessons that required a
low C bass clarinet. I am sure there is some, but if you don't think you will need a low C bass you could almost buy another bass for the difference in price between a bass that plays down to Eb and a low C. The newer Vitos seem to have the most mechanical issues.
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2008-09-26 10:19
1) small correction to the above : the ridenour bass clarinet has a double register key.
2) Can't believe a lot of people are saying that you can play difficult clarinet music on single register instruments. Wide leaps are difficult to impossible, above clarion f, f#, G ( depending on the instrument) you have to work very hard to get a somewhat decent tone . AND have the right mouthpiece for that specific bass.
I would never advise a single register instrument , unless someone is just starting to learn how to play. Every other reed player will nearly immediately encounter many problems that are more instrument then technique related. That's not what you play for. And indeed , the ridenour instruments are the only to offer double register keys , contrary to what Don ( sorry there ) was saying.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-09-26 13:00
TKS, O C G and buedsma, I agree. Without saying it, I was including Tom Ridenour's good "semi-pro" basses in the "desireables". I tried out his earlier Low C bass and seriously considered buying one for community band use, but my playing days are nearly over and retirement economics dictate. Others here have reported that the newer versions of the Eb and C basses are much improved, I hope to find one "tryable" and put it thru the "paces". Others, please help. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-09-26 14:31
An afterthought, I look at the patent art on cls, frequently, and the only B C [recent] register key pats I can recall are two to Yamaha which may be on their present basses, so I'd add Yamaha's line to the search for the best playing insts. Will recheck US pats and post the Yam's #'s later. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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