 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rusty
Date: 2008-09-04 08:35
Has anyone any thoughts on what are the usual sizes of the finger key holes? Some clarinets have smaller holes for easy closing . So if I want to buy a clarinet, is it possible to quote a certain dimension for small. medium or large hole clarinets? e.g. Yamahas are large hole clarinets(?) But what size is large?
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-09-04 14:51
"Some clarinets have smaller holes for easy closing "
I suspect the reasons are more to do with acoustic design, and far more complex than most players appreciate. It is one of the many factors contributing to the pitch of notes, the pitch 'bendability' of notes, the relative timbre of different notes, the relative volume of different notes, to adjust for the pitch of a note being too high or too low on the instrument to make a space for the centre tenon, some affect on 'resistance', etc, etc.
A mystery to me is why A clarinets seem to generally have smaller tone holes. Is it part of a design for a specific tonal characteristic of A clarinets, as distinct from the tone of Bb ones?
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2008-09-04 15:31
Since reducing the size of a tone hole lowers pitch, Gordon, do you think it could be part of the overall design, including a smaller bore, to shorten the instrument to reduce finger-spread?
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-09-04 18:58
I always thought that the smaller holes for A is to bring the holes closer together.
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Author: stevesklar
Date: 2008-09-05 00:11
"A mystery to me is why A clarinets seem to generally have smaller tone holes. Is it part of a design for a specific tonal characteristic of A clarinets, as distinct from the tone of Bb ones?"
now you've done it Gordon. I've never noticed that. I must resist looking at the A's here
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-09-05 00:44
skygardener wrote:
> I always thought that the smaller holes for A is to bring the holes closer
> together.
I think that's basically it. From an acoustical point of view, the effect of a tone hole is to make the instrument tube (bore) appear to be "sawed off" at a certain point. This "effective length" of the tube can be computed (approximately) as the position of the tone hole modified by a certain correction factor that depends on the diameter of the tone hole, the bore diameter, the length of the tone hole, and the distance to the next open tone hole. There is a formula or two out there for computing this.
To make a long story short, the smaller diameter a tone hole is, the longer the "effective length" of the tube is at that tone hone. So if you had larger holes, they'd have to extend further down the bore of the instrument to get the same pitch.
The clarinet is also a strange beast when it comes to tone hole diameters because it's designed to be used with forked fingerings, which put additional constraints on the distances you can have between the tone holes. (For example, the tone hole correction factor for low "B" on the clarinet has to take into account the distance between the first and third right hand finger holes, while the tone hole correction factor for low "Bb"--same tone hole, mind you--takes into account the distance between the first and second tone holes)
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Author: Rusty
Date: 2008-09-05 05:05
I was looking at a new Buescher Bb clarinet a friend just bought. Tiny little holes (compared to my Yamaha & Vito) except for a very large 3rd. finger L.hand hole. I have never seen one so large. Thought if anything this hole would have been the smallest for ease of covering.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-09-06 12:29
I have noticed that even the lowest tone holes of an A are often smaller than the equivalent Bb. Finger spacing does not feature there.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-09-08 15:27
Gordon wrote:
<<Finger spacing does not feature there.>>
I'm not sure what that means. The distance between consecutive open tone holes has an effect on the pitch. There is a formula for estimating this effect. See http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/Mathematics.html#holesizepitch.
My A has more widely spaced RH tone holes than my Bb (both R13s), but it might have even more widely spaced tone holes if the tone holes were not smaller than the Bb's holes.
One should expect different sizes of tone holes if the bore were a different size. Based on the formula, it wouldn't surprise me if that Buescher clarinet Rusty mentioned had a much larger bore than an R13, for example.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-09-08 16:10
>> My A has more widely spaced RH tone holes than my Bb (both
>> R13s), but it might have even more widely spaced tone holes
>> if the tone holes were not smaller than the Bb's holes.
But Gordon mentiond tone holes that are not closed by fingers, like the F/C and E/B keys tone holes, mentioning they are also smaller on A than on Bb, but the size of those doesn't affect finger spacing at all.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-09-08 17:35
clarnibass wrote:
> >> My A has more widely spaced RH tone holes than my Bb (both
> >> R13s), but it might have even more widely spaced tone holes
> >> if the tone holes were not smaller than the Bb's holes.
>
> But Gordon mentiond tone holes that are not closed by fingers,
> like the F/C and E/B keys tone holes, mentioning they are also
> smaller on A than on Bb, but the size of those doesn't affect
> finger spacing at all.
Oh, I see what you (and Gordon) are saying. (just needed to wake up, I think). The smaller tone holes still keep the bottom keywork from extending further down the length of the instrument, even though it has nothing to do with finger spacing. That may not tell the whole story, but that is, in fact, what it does.
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