 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Pam
Date: 2000-09-21 18:42
I was cruising on ebay and saw this -- http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=443527203
Is it really a contrabass clarinet or maybe a sax? I've never seen either that big up close. Thanks for any input.
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-09-21 19:14
Simple answer, YES, knowing as little as I do about CB's.[didn't old Ben Franklin say "a little bit of learning is a dangerous thing" ?!], I'd say it was a "half-paper-clip" version of a contrabass clar.. As best I know, since a good friend has the straight version CB which requires a stool [or a tall person standing] to play, and I have seen in LeBlanc brochures pic's of the "paper-clip" versions of the CB BBb [and contra-alto Eb], this does look like the CB. I believe that Linton as a separate co. no longer exists, may be a part of UMI, I did have a brief acquaintance with Jack back in the '60's, competent! Orsi info is requested below, [Mark, can you help?], so I have no help on the CB's age! Will be very interested, bet the bids will rise dramatically, I would like it too. Don
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Author: S.Koumas
Date: 2000-09-21 21:08
All i can say is wow!
That CB looks excellent, if i wernt a poor stupid :-) i would be bidding for that!
And ive never seen such a big mouth piece in my life! (Thats gotta hurt)
Bye!
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-09-21 22:17
Whoa! Contabass clarinet? Although it looks very much like a contrabass clarinet, take a closer look. It actually looks to be an early bass saxophone. In high school I did quite a bit of maintenance on the bari saxes and the instrument I played - contrabass clarinet. I did everything from regualiting to fixing a bent tone hole on a bari sax. Obviously, to be able to regulate a contrabass clarinet, you have to know what key does what, and why - let alone be able to take it apart and put it back together. In doing this, you get to know how the keywork operates. To me, the keywork just screams - Saxophone! I have never seen a contra with keywork like this. The keywork looks to be identical to the old saxes. One of the reasons it looks so much like a contra, is the bore isn't as conical as modern saxes. The early saxes, however, were less conical. It still is conical, though, and this is one of the major differences between clarinet and sax. Unless anyone is interested in what the differences in the keywork are, I'm not going to bother going into detail with this. As a final note - "What do you get when you cross a contrabass clarinet and a bass sax? Go take a look on ebay!" :-) -- Nate Zeien
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Author: Eoin
Date: 2000-09-21 22:18
The thing that makes this a clarinet rather than a saxophone is that the tube is the same width the whole way along it, except for the very end where it widens out. This is technically a "cylindrical bore". Saxophones start narrow at the mouthpiece and get wider all the way along the tube, finally flaring out at the end. This is known as a "conical" bore. It is this that makes the difference in tone, and makes the saxophone quite a different instrument from the clarinet.
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Author: Pam
Date: 2000-09-21 22:43
It is an interesting looking horn. It was the key work that I can see that made me wonder if it might be a sax. But I don't know enough about the bigger clari's to know what their keywork might look like. I don't think we can afford that right now! My husband already refers to stuff he wants as "that only costs 1/2 a clarinet!" (Comparing to my R-13)
Thanks for the input & the laughs!
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Author: Dee
Date: 2000-09-21 23:04
It is definitely a member of the clarinet family. It is close to constant diameter for the majority of it's length. Saxophones (even with only modest flares) have a much more noticeable change than this.
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-09-21 23:18
Dee, take a close look at the keys, and the general shape of the instrument. Not only are the keys shaped like saxophone, but there are mechanisms that are specific to saxophone. It's not the best picture, but you can still tell. -- Nate Zeien
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-09-21 23:23
I agree with Don that it'll probably fetch a handsom price. Looks like an 'Albert' system to me but quite likely standard pitch, considering it's a metal horn. Pretty good shape for old fella.
ron b.
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Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2000-09-21 23:27
After staring at the picture for 10 minutes I recognize it to be a bass sax. The mouthpiece is too big to be a contrabass clarinet (although old CB mouthpieces were pretty big). Also, the keywork. Look at the bottom for the little pinky keys, they aren't there, but the saxophone keys are. It does have some clarinet characteristics...I wish I could get a closer look at it.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-09-21 23:30
Nate - forget the keys. Look at the body. The tubing section is straight - it's a clarinet.
Adolphe Sax had a passion for low instruments, including the clarinets, remember. There's no rational reason not to include "sax like" mechanisms - and the Albert system clarinets, suitably enlarged, would look like it had sax palm pads & rollers.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-09-21 23:32
Kontagirl - if the body is straight and it uses a single reed it's a clarinet no matter what the keys look like.
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Author: Nate Zeien
Date: 2000-09-21 23:51
Mark, I do know what the Albert system looks like. I have even played on those before. I did not base my opinion soley on these keys alone. The whole key system is that of a saxophone. Perhaps it is a cylindrical/conical bore clarinet with a saxophone key system. The true test would be to see if it plays up the 12th or the octave. I'll see if can do a little research, but I still think it is a sax. -- Nate Zeien
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2000-09-22 03:40
Wow - The more I study the pics and consider the seller's description, the more interesting it becomes! It certainly is different from any low ww's I.ve ever seen, but sorry, Nate, I agree with those who insist its a clar. [essentially a cyl. bore]. It does have keywork resembling a sax, partic. for the rt. little finger, for Ab and F? Is it possible that there is no duplication of keying between the little fingers as we are used to [so there it is like a sax!]?? I cant make out any key-use of the rt thumb, as a "basset" system does. Has anyone yet asked a number of questions [within reason!] of the seller who seems to indicate more knowledge than given. Prob. anything this large is highly special and this may well be a true "experimental" model as well! My wife has just vetoed my bidding on it, so perhaps I should buy several lottery tickets, any joiners?? Don
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-09-22 04:24
I just got back a reply from the seller who stated that it is definately a Bb contra. He also stated he was not sure which system (Albert or Boehm). Judging by the Pepsi can its alot bigger bore than the LeBlanc contras. I have seen some of the new Orsi Bass and Contra bass saxes and this ain't them (they're HUGE). My guess is this is not that old as they (Orsi) seem to have a passion for making big woodwinds, mostly saxes. Since they build some really good custom built big saxes, they may have utilized some "sax tech in the key system. Look at the site for "Nuclear Whales" at the big saxes they use.
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Author: Kim L.
Date: 2000-09-22 11:58
I agree with Kontragirl. In order to be a clarinet of any kind, the instrument would have to have open hole keys. The instrument in the picture appears to have the pearl keys of a saxophone. Also, I think that a contra comes in two pieces, the bell being screwed in at the bottom end. I don't see any indication of a second piece in the picture. With these statements, I can clearly conclude that the instrument in the picture is a saxophone.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-09-22 12:14
Kim L. wrote:
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I agree with Kontragirl. In order to be a clarinet of any kind, the instrument would have to have open hole keys.
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That's not true at all, and is especially not true of very low instruments. Unless I'm misunderstanding your comment.
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The instrument in the picture appears to have the pearl keys of a saxophone. Also, I think that a contra comes in two pieces, the bell being screwed in at the bottom end. I don't see any indication of a second piece in the picture. With these statements, I can clearly conclude that the instrument in the picture is a saxophone.
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Contras have been made in many different ways - check the link for low bass instruments in the Equipment section.
Again, it's not the key mechanism, the number of pieces it disassembles into, or anything like that that defines a clarinet. Single reed, cylindrical bore.
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Author: Roger
Date: 2000-09-22 12:30
I agree with the prior postings. It is a clarinet. What makes clarinet is Single reed, cylindrical bore. If it were conicial it would be a sax. It is clearly cylindrical. The key mechanism is not that important unless you want to play it!
It is an interesting instrument.
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Author: Kontragirl
Date: 2000-09-22 16:19
Contra clarinets do not have open key holes, or at least I've never heard of, seen, or played on one. I would just hate to think of getting my fingers stuck in the holes! OUCH!
I didn't even stop to think it could be an Albert system. I have seen Albert systems, but I'm not familar with them. Maybe this instrument was made to be more managable, like a bari sax. That is, short people like me don't have to sit on a phone book to play it. A clarinet in a saxes body?
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Author: Lelia
Date: 2000-09-23 00:11
What an odd critter. Orsi is an Italian company with a reputation for unusual and innovative designs. Orsi also makes the new contrabass and "saxello" model saxophones for L. A. Sax. I agree with those who identify this strange beast as a clarinet.
BTW, it seems to me that the seller writes like someone who *knows* what the instrument is, instead of parroting half-understood information from dubious sources. Notice the reference to plateau keys, for instance. Those *are* plateau keys, common on the larger clarinets. (I have them on my 1979 Selmer alto clarinet.)
One caveat, though -- this clarinet evidently was made for sale under the Linton brand name. I don't think Linton is among the more highly regarded brand names for clarinets. A bizarre design is not necessarily a better design. I would like to hear from someone who has actually played one of these.
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Author: Willie
Date: 2000-09-23 05:30
The old Nuclear Whales site seems to be gone but if you plug in "Nuclear Whales" then look under "contact Nuclear whales". It will have a good picture of the contra bass sax and its obvious conical bore. Even shows our "Prez" playing one.
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Author: kenny
Date: 2000-09-25 15:17
A clarinet may not neccessary have a purely cylindrical bore. I heard that the German designs have a conical bore.
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2000-09-25 15:27
kenny wrote:
> A clarinet may not neccessary have a purely cylindrical
> bore. I heard that the German designs have a conical bore.
All clarinets must have an essentiall cylindrical bore; if it's a conical bore it will overblow an octave, not a twelfth. You must have heard wrong or perhaps someone was talking about a bore design that is almost cylindrical. The amount of flare in a bore allowed before it acoustically become a conical section is very small.
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Author: Ken Shaw
Date: 2000-09-26 17:24
It's definitely a clarinet, not a saxophone. Many of the old contra clarinets have bells that expand like this one. The bore is cylindrical until it gets to the bell section, and the mouthpiece fits into a socket instead of the outside of the neck, as with a sax. It's almost certainly an Eb contra-alto. It's not long enough to be in Bb. The keys for the left little finger are barely visible, but the fact that it has only two keys for the right little finger means that it has simple system ("Albert") fingering. From counting the keys, it appears to go only to written E, not the usual Eb.
It went for a little over $2,000, which seems about right, given that there's no information about the fingering system, whether it's at A-440, or whether it's playable, though it appears in good condition.
The buyer is unfamiliar (th.reil@gmx.net). Anybody want to volunteer to contact him/her and find out what it turned out to be?
Ken Shaw
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Author: Wes Brown
Date: 2000-11-24 23:21
Hi!
The name "clariphone" has been mentioned several times in these posts. I own a clarinet-type instrument that was specifically identified by expert Albert Rice as a "clariphone".
It is a metal instrument with a upturned bell with the name Buescher on it and the top end is angled toward the player. It has the same keys and pitches as a normal metal Bb clarinet and sounds the same. I demonstrated it at a meeting of the American Musical Instrument Society. The only place I've seen one was in an old jazz film which I can't identify. It probably could be considered a novely instrument but it plays as well as many metal clarinets of the bygone days.
Wes Brown
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