 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: autumnsilence
Date: 2008-08-22 01:28
I recently bought a Buffet B12 clarinet and it was a good upgrade from my pretty banged up and used Selmer CL300... anyway, the school year just started yesterday and today is the first time i played in band with it, besdies the few times i tried it out after just getting it. I know that certain mouthpieces dont always go with certain reeds etc. and im not really sure if i need a softer reed, or if its because im using a new mouthpiece im not that used to get or that i havent really played much during the summer..
I played on a yamaha 2V for about two years and the mouthpiece that im using now is just the regular buffet mouthpiece that originally came with the instrument. I am using a #3 strength reed but it seems like i have to blow much harder with the new mouthpiece than i ever did on the 2V, and its the same reed i tried on both. After about an hour or so of playing i got a little more used to it but to get a good sound out of it i had to blow rather hard not to mention my bottom lip was pretty sore afterwards from pressing against the reed.
I figured id give it a week or two and see if i ajust to it or not but i need to buy new reeds soon anyways i just dont know if i should try going down to a 2.5 or stick with the 3's. maybe one of each.. not really sure.. also i kinda know i end up answering my own questions lol but any advice? thanks
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-08-22 01:51
I've mentioned before ot another person. when you get the buffet clarinet, take the mouthpiece, ligature wraping and all, and set it on fire (or recycle it to be used in something more useful like plastic sporks). If the Yamaha 2V works better on the B12, use it. Honestly the Buffet stock mouthpiece aren't worth the effort it takes to unwrap them.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: autumnsilence
Date: 2008-08-22 02:01
ya i have heard that the buffet stock mouthpieces arent worth it but i wanted to give it a chance seeing as i dont have the money just yet to buy a new mouthpiece and my 2V desperately needs replacing.. has heavy bite marks (and i dont us my teeth....ever...) and the inside is getting pretty gross and rinsing it with mild soap and water int really cutting it anymore, especially on the calcium buildup.. plus my ligature is getting moldy... but i could easily fix that by using the buffet ligature which is pretty much new... ill try switching mouthpieces but i hope to get a new mouthpiece soon...
Another question with the Buffet B12... i noticed that when i was playing that all the cork seems fine on it and none of it is loose or wearing away or anything but when i move my hands a certain way or put pressure on certain spots, it will bend forward... ill try to explain better..
Its the spot where you connect the two pieces with all the keys.. (dont know the technical name) in the middle of the clarinet above the thumbrest, and i looked at the cork, seems fine but when its put together the top piece will bend forward a little bit and i dont know if that means that the cork isnt thick enough or something or if i just need to get that spot completely re-corked... any suggestions?
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Author: davidsampson
Date: 2008-08-22 02:13
RE calcium build up: Soak your mouthpiece in hydrogen peroxide for a couple of hours, it works wonders.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-08-22 02:16
"Its the spot where you connect the two pieces with all the keys.. "
The upper joint and lower joint. You have wobble or give in the joint. Take it to a repair tech and see what they can do with it...chances are recorking will hopefully take care of it.
As for the mouthpiece/reed situation. Is it just the ONE reed, or all 3's?
If it is all or most 3's, then you need to drop in reed strength for this mouthpiece.
Or get used to using more air and supporting the sound.
"...not to mention my bottom lip was pretty sore afterwards from pressing against the reed"
When you first pull a new reed out, lick your thumb and smooth the reed down with the thumb to press and reduce the grain. Did you practice regularly over the summer or are you just now putting in more time? This contributes as well.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-08-22 02:49
>, and set it on fire
environmental disaster, don't burn it
it makes a wonderful paperweight. or drill holes in it, screw in some hooks, and make it into a fishing lure.
seriously,
1. have someone else play the instrument - to check it out for leaky pads, etc.
2. then try several reeds, 3.0's ; also try a 2.5.
3. i'd also suggest there are better mouthpieces out there - try a fobes 'debut' or a vandoren 5rv-lyre
hth,
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: jparrette
Date: 2008-08-22 03:07
I noticed your comment about not using your teeth. The vast majority of all clarinetists play "single lip" - that is, they put their teeth on the top of the mouthpiece. The remaining minority play "double lip", or wrap their upper lip over their top teeth. Most teachers wouldn't recommend this.
About your mouthpiece situation - The Fobes Debut is excellent, and can be had for around $30.
The Buffet stock mouthpieces are trash. They should be ashamed of the mouthpieces they include in all their clarinets.
Good luck -
John
John Parrette
CLARION MUSICAL SERVICES
john@clarionmusical.com
914-805-3388
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-08-22 03:24
Paul wrote (quoted my quote, then responded)
">, and set it on fire
environmental disaster, don't burn it
it makes a wonderful paperweight. or drill holes in it, screw in some hooks, and make it into a fishing lure."
Come to think of it, and why i mentioned recycling it for use in plastic sporks, burning it wouldn't be acceptable these days. it could also be used for a plumb level, camping spoon, snorkle, breath tube, christmas tree ornament, or toothbrush holder.
If the 2V does need to be replaced, then I'd agree with Paul on his suggestion of the Fobes Debut or Vandoren 5RV Lyre. both have a similar facing so if you can't afford the vandoren at around $65ish to $75ish then the Fobes is a great choice at only about $20 or $30, i forget. I've been able to play both and i play a Fobes San Fransisco CF+, which has an identical facing to the debut.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-08-22 04:06
roflmao @ Ryder toothbrush holder, i like that one. i'll have to glue one to a flat surface and try that. stay tuned to this bat channel for results in a few days...
autums - have someone else play it first (on their mouthpiece and reed) , to rule out mechanical issues. then we can look at reed/mouthpiece/embouchure as others have indicated. good luck.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: autumnsilence
Date: 2008-08-22 06:26
thanks for the help on this, yes i do need to take it into someone and have it looked at considering i dont know how much work it needs (but really doesnt seem like much) but it really sucks that the chance is hard to come by. the nearest, (and i think only) person who looks at/repairs instruments is the Horn Dr. and his shop is like 200 something miles away in the biggest town/city thing (luckily it isnt tooo far). and i think he might charge just to look at it and see what it needs done with it because i remember last year my band teacher was really excited that he was coming into town and looking at all the school instruments for free, of course the actual repairs were not, and i would be wihout an instrument for a few weeks, which is what ive seen from other people dropping of thier instrument. but dividend time is rolling around again and this year its 3,200$ per person (the joys of living in alaska! i get paid for it!!) so thats when im actually going the extra mile on this stuff... new mouthpiece, clarinet, repairs everything while i have the money so that ill have a good working instrument to last me through college. so hopefully hte repairs can wait a month.
About the double lip thing, yes my band teacher said i "wasnt supposed to do that" but old habits die hard after 5 odd years of playing, but i guess thats what happens when someone just hands you an instrument and a book and wishes you the best of luck.. i have tried using my teeth a few times but the majority of the time the vibrations bother me too much but i do use my teeth from time to time if necessary.
About my lip hurting? well i wasnt using a new reed so i dont know if it was the grain or not but it sure feels like it, usually after i play for over an hour and a half (or if im practicing like crazy) then my lip starts getting very sore and sometimes i wonder if in going to get splinters from the reeds lol, sounds weird but thats pretty much what it feels like, and when there is a pause in the music or we stop or whatever I end up smoothing down the reed anyway bt thats usualy just to wipe off exess spit lol. and after a while i get teeth maks on the inside of my bottom lip from the pressure but i think this is because i have been using more pressure to make up for the hard reeds..
which im thinking i need to downgrade to a 2.5 since i tried to different reeds that were both 3's and it didnt change a thing. but then again after playing about an hour or however long our band class is, i got quite used to the adjustment and although i did practice over the summer, i noticed that my practicing isnt the same as me playing in band.. dont know why but it bothers me to play loudly in a dead quiet house.. (really dont know why lol) so i payed more attention to my flute, and practiceing on the oboe (which is kinda hard until i find reeds for it lol).. but im sure it will be fine soon considering im going to be involved in alot of music stuff this school year like band, community band, nt to mention that All state, All northwest, Solo and ensamble, and mass band are all happening this year and that doesnt happen often consdering most of those alternate years and wahtnot so hopefully i can get ito as much as i can.. maybe ill even see some of you guys at All Northwest? which i really dont know which states those include but yeah...
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-08-22 11:14
"he vast majority of all clarinetists play "single lip" - that is, they put their teeth on the top of the mouthpiece. The remaining minority play "double lip", or wrap their upper lip over their top teeth. Most teachers wouldn't recommend this."
Personally, I have no idea what the "vast" majority of players do. I do believe the vast majority , however, are relative beginners whose instructors choose not to investigate double lip. I do feel that off the cuff unfounded comments about double lip are presumptious.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-08-22 12:45
BobD wrote:
> I do feel that off the cuff unfounded comments about
> double lip are presumptious.
From the 6 or 7 Clarinetfests I've attended, I've personally observed that the majority of players onstage play single lip.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-08-22 13:34
The majority of players do play single. But double lip, taught properly, is not to be discouraged just because most people don't do it that way. The two embouchures do function a bit differently, and there are many advantages to playing double.
" Most teachers wouldn't recommend this." Those same "most teachers" have never tried and don't know how!
Comments for or against are best made by clarinetists who have spent a time playing both ways. (Now I'm not saying that you're not allowed to have your opinion, just that I don't have to pay any attention unless you know what you're talking about from experience.)
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-08-22 13:39
Autumnsilence:
If your lip bothers you it may just be that the skin of your lip is getting back into playing condition. Get some non-habit forming lip balm as you re-acclimate.
"dont know why but it bothers me to play loudly in a dead quiet house.. "
You need to practice the way you're going to play regardless of the instrument. So FILL THE HOUSE WITH SOUND! The only purpose to playing an instrument is to be heard. Try to make sure your neighbors can hear you, they might even like it.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-08-22 14:13
About the double lip "minority"- I have actually never met anyone in person that plays double lip. (perhaps I have , but the subject never came up, but you get the idea.) The closest was a teacher that advised it as part of one's warm up, but even he did not perform that way.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-08-22 22:01
David - I've only known one - a symphony player who taught me for 2 years. He never did convince me to convert, although I use double lip for practicing upon occassion.
should i post the toothbrush holder pic here, or in a new 'wierd things to do with junk mouthpieces' thread.?
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-08-22 23:07
Rule 1: In the absence of any better scapegoat, it's the reed.
Rule 2: If it isn't the reed, it's the mouthpiece.
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-08-23 02:15
Paul wrote :
"should i post the toothbrush holder pic here, or in a new 'wierd things to do with junk mouthpieces' thread.?"
A new thread, but maybe it can be expanded to 'wierd things to do with junk parts (mouthpieces, barrels, ligatures, etc...) and old (hopless) instruments.'
I would try to make something w/ the buffet mouthpieces, but all the ones i had, i gave away. I did give fair warning as to how crappy they were though.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-08-23 04:30
I know this is a tangent, but I got to say I am really surprised that so many people hate the Buffet mouthpiece. With refacing and some chamber work they can be great. Even as they are, they are not bad.
Post Edited (2008-08-23 10:27)
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Author: David Spiegelthal ★2017
Date: 2008-08-23 13:37
With proper refacing just about ANY mouthpiece can be great. But the worst the original mouthpiece, the more rework is required to get it to play well.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-08-23 13:50
True, but I don't find that they are all that hard to work with and I don't see why everyone says they are such junk. I find them no worse than other mass produced pieces.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-08-23 15:05
"A great instrument should have a mouthpiece that is also the same."
That is a good point. If they really supply a Tosca with the same $60 mouthpiece that comes with and E11, then it is kind of a joke.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-08-23 15:14
Who would buy the buffet mouthpiece at $60? What mouthpiece is that that buffet selects to be placed with an E11?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-08-23 15:29
It's always been like that. Nobody is expected to play the mouthpiece comes with the instrument at that level.
The B-12 comes with a mouthpiece that is basically that level of Clarinet/Mouthpiece.
Fine for a first year player, not much beyond.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-08-23 15:31
Even with a beginner having them play a Fobes or Genussa Mouthpiece is a really good way to go. Tone production can only go so far with some of the junk out there.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-08-23 16:01
"What mouthpiece is that that buffet selects to be placed with an E11?"
If it is the same as the Buffet mouthpieces that are sold separately, then it is made by ESM, to my understanding.
I just did a search and it seems that the Buffet mouthpieces I am thinking of are not sold in the US. Maybe it is just a product in the eastern market. They are sold separately here for about $80.
We might be talking about different things... oops! Sorry. ![[rotate]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley25.gif)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-08-23 23:34
Hello skygardener,
We must be! The mouthpieces that come in with the Buffet's here are little more than mouthpiece shaped door-jambs. (and definitely not a $60-80 door jamb!)
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-08-24 14:53
Nope. Generally speaking none...just the logo. They are also clearly made of plastic, not hard rubber.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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