 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-08-22 11:19
.....one can also subscribe to "billyboy676". I guess it works.
If you really believe Mr.Ridenour is a comic you should check the price of his book, "Educator's Guide......."......and purchase it.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-08-22 13:57
Those are fun and instructive videos, although a little too much "my way or the highway" kind of talk for my taste.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-08-22 14:02
I agree Sylvain "aka my way" thing.
Has anyone tried to play the B with the A key closed? Maybe I didnt watch carefully enough as I was half asleep when viewing it last night, but I tried it and couldnt make it work at all. soon as I pressed the A key any kind of pitch wouldnt come out.
I think I meant the A key open?
Post Edited (2008-08-22 14:03)
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-08-22 14:58
It worked for me and helped with the break but intonation then was off. I'm sure with a little practice I could me it work.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
Post Edited (2008-08-22 15:35)
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Author: William
Date: 2008-08-22 14:59
"A key open?"
B4 (long B) with the A key opened works very well, especially at pp. Like, "My Way" said, it takes a little practice to coordinate the fingers, but it can be a useful technique for smoother transitions and when you need special clarity in that sometimes foggy note.
TR (+ A) XXX/XXX rl
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Author: Old Geezer
Date: 2008-08-22 15:25
In the videos his clarinet tone is very poor...that clarinet he's playing isn't made of rubber is it!?
Clarinet Redux
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-08-22 16:48
janlynn wrote:
> Has anyone tried to play the B with the A key closed?
The A key is normally closed on the standard long B fingering.
As for the the A key open on the long B, I've used that fingering for about 40 years ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif)
It's a common fingering which is used by many players. Depending upon your equipment and set-up it usually allows the long B to ring a bit more, with less resistance.
I frequently use it on sustained passages.
...GBK
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-08-23 14:38
Also mentioned in the Peter Hadcock's "Working Clarinetist" in the Brahms 3 section.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-08-24 15:33
I sometimes just open the Ab key. Playing the B with the A key open is not very ergonomic.
About his oiling video- I disagree with his idea about using the pipe cleaners in his method. It is very easy to get a bit of fuzz into the tube that way and it is impossible to get out without removing the key. I just remove they key if I need to clean the tube. Also, he mentions that the lubricant is so important (I agree), so what is it that he is using???
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-08-24 15:49
>> so what is it that he is using???
I bet he uses Ultimax lubricants, or at least would recommend them, because according to his website he is selling them. I really like the Ultimax key oils (several different thicknesses). On the other hand I absolutely don't like the Ultimax grease and cork grease because they are very sticky. For pivot screw grease I like the ones from the Doctor (or sometimes use extra thick oil). Cork grease I definitely prefer the natrual one from the Doctor. For synthetic cork grease I prefer Alisyn to either Ultimax or the one from the Doctor.
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2008-08-24 18:58
Bill Brannen once gave me a small amount of 5W-20 motor oil. That's what he uses.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-08-24 20:26
Hey Dave, Bill did the same for me. One question though: how many miles are we allowed to go before the oil change?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-08-24 21:38
Motor Honey is about the same viscosity as what Tom is usng.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-08-25 14:25
Opening the A key while playing the break B has been used for years by pros to “open” their sound a bit and alter the pitch if necessary. I never do it myself but have known of it for years and inform my students of its possibilities.
I’ve used 3 and 1 oil ever since I was a student in NY. Murray Snyder, then the head repairman for Buffet back when Carl Fischer was there distributor in NY, suggested I use it, I have ever since. I’ve been told that motor oil is too thick, apparently it is not. Can I play faster with it?
I Think Old Geezer has it right, if you’re going to play a demonstration you should play with a beautiful sound. I don't liike the video of him fixing his reed blindfolded, I think his tool speaks for itself. I simply don't think it proves anything, but that's just me. He is a great tech and has very good ideas.
ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 Listen to a little Mozart
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2008-08-25 20:16)
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-08-25 18:06
(Disclaimer - I sell synthetic lubricants)
I do not know what lubricant Tom is using. It is great to get tips from respected technicians and from old friends but Tribology (the science of lubricants) has advanced significantly and just because Nye clock oil (which has changed formulation from the original whale oil in recent years), 3-in-1 oil, or petroleum based motor oils worked well in the past is not a good reason to continue using them today when advances have improved lubricants significantly.
I do not believe in change for change sake but the analytical proof of comparisons of old lubricants with new ones is impressive. Newer synthetic lubricants will not evaporate like petroleum based oils to leave a sludge or lacquer behind, they do not change viscosity with temperature extremes, they lubricate better (have lower coefficients of friction), and stick-bond to metal better - giving better lubrication. IMO many respected woodwind technicians (from my own sales data) now use synthetic lubricants in their work just because they work better and last longer.
This may sound self serving, but with the increasing cost of instruments and technician's time to fix instruments, IMO buying use and care products that have been researched and found to be excellent and specific for woodwind applications is the best insurance that you can use to keep your instrument in top working condition, and contributes to the longevity of the instrument too. Mentors of the past should be revered for their pedagogy about playing but perhaps not about their dated care products hints.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-08-25 18:39
Sorry am I the only one or was Ed's comment very arrocant? I think it's very nice of Tom to put out this videos on Youtube for free.
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Author: russjm
Date: 2008-08-25 19:42
I, for one, thought his tone was nice, but what do I know?
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-08-25 20:17
"Sorry am I the only one or was Ed's comment very arrocant? I think it's very nice of Tom to put out this videos on Youtube for free."
Pot calling the kettle black! Iceland clarinet: I don't know how many times you've passed judgment on someone else's sound in the past couple of years: how about your numerous statements on Leister's playing for example?
Why are you allowed but not Ed?
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-08-25 20:20
Ice, I didn’t mean to sound arrogant so I edited my post. That was not my intention; I just don’t think he has to sell himself that way. I’m speaking about the reed thing. Sorry if I gave you or anyone else the wrong impression. ESP
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-08-25 20:25
James It has nothing to do with if he likes his tone or not. It has to do with Tom's good intention of putting this instruction videos for free on Youtube and Ed not being able to appreciate it.
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2008-08-25 20:27
I don't know why anyone would comment on his sound in the first place?
The guy is in a tiny little room that probably has carpet and the sound was probably recorded by the mic in the camera or other low qulaity recording device.
It's not like he was recorded with a fancy studio mic in Boston Symphony Hall or something. Furthermore, he sounds a lot better than a lot of techs I have heard play the clarinet.
The nit picking on this board is always entertaining (I've been guilty of it from time to time). Makes me wonder if clarinetists are the most depressed and or angry section in the orchestra.
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-08-25 20:57
"It has to do with Tom's good intention of putting this instruction videos for free on Youtube and Ed not being able to appreciate it."
Rhetorically: "It has to do with Leister's good sound but Iceland clarinet not being able to appreciate it"
Would this mean that you're not allowed to comment? Of course not! Ed has clarified his intentions in this case, but even if he had responded arrogantly he is allowed to make comments as long as they meet the forum's standard's of acceptability.
I just find it interesting that you object to something that you (and many others, including me) do frequently: make value judgments based on our experience and preference.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-08-25 22:02
Iceland clarinet wrote:
> Sorry am I the only one or was Ed's comment very arrocant? I think it's
> very nice of Tom to put out this videos on Youtube for free.
[Edit: I started writing this post before Ed responded to Iceland but left, came back, and didn't hit "post" until later] I don't think it was arrogant. I think Ed's point that the reed video seems to do the ATG system a disservice is valid. The value of ATG is not that you can use it while blindfolded, but that it provides a systematic and easy-to-learn way to adjust a reed without butchering it (like so many of us have done before with reed knives). By focusing on some aspect of his invention that is clearly of dubious value instead of the real virtues of ATG, Tom makes it look as if the real virtues of ATG do not exist.
If he is trying to promote his ATG product, a better way would have been to simply come out and explain what makes ATG a good product/system. A better way of doing what he tried to do with the blindfold would have been to have somebody like a high school student who has just learned the technique demonstrate it to show how easy and effective it is.
If he's trying to get repeat business from folks like me who already own an ATG kit, a good video might have been about how to get the most out of the ATG system, including topics such as Ed indirectly suggested, such as how to locate good reeds to start with (based on your setup), so that you get the best results. Or perhaps some case studies highlighting how to fix specific reed problems (like on the ATG video that came with the kit).
The ironic thing about the whole terrorist joke in this video is that there really is a serious violence/terror issue with regard to reed-fixing and that is that a reed knife may be viewed as a potential weapon. You can't bring one as a carry-on item on an airplane, and more importantly, if you're a student, you probably can't take one to school. ATG, on the other hand, doesn't suffer from those problems, so you won't treated like a juvenile delinquent, criminal, or terrorist for carrying it around.
Like I said, I own an ATG kit. I like it and use it a lot. Like Ed, though, I don't think Tom's video does it justice, and if I didn't already know that ATG was a good product I wouldn't go out and buy it based off this video. I don't consider Ed's commentary to be arrogant--I consider it an honest critique (by a satisfied customer).
But because he's so positive and has been nice enough to answer even my silliest questions with genuine care, I would gladly accept criticism from Ed Palanker any day!
Post Edited (2008-08-26 00:14)
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2008-08-25 22:29
I started taking lessons with him, but unfortunately a 2.5 hour drive each way (even every other week) started to kill me and I had a lot of issues coming up in, well, "life" I guess would be the best way to put it and was unable to continue.
But had he been closer and had I the time/$$$, I would've continued. He knows what he's doing. As a matter of fact, he's one of the VERY few people I put complete faith in when it comes to working on my clarinets. I would much rather mail my clarinet to him or one or two others that I've worked with in the past and have my repairs/maintenance done CORRECTLY (even if I have to wait while it's in transit there and back) than have it done locally. Not that there's anything bad with the local repair shops, I'm sure some of them are very good, but I KNOW it's gonna be done right if it goes to him.
So when it comes to tips on maintenance/repair, take it seriously. Great guy, great player, and from what I see, he knows clarinets as much as or more than most anyone else in the clarinet repair business.
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-08-26 00:01
Ryan 25 wrote:
> The guy is in a tiny little room that probably has carpet and the sound
> was probably recorded by the mic in the camera or other low qulaity
> recording device.
I'm glad you mentioned that. I was thinking that, too.
>The nit picking on this board is always entertaining (I've been guilty of it
> from time to time). Makes me wonder if clarinetists are the most
> depressed and or angry section in the orchestra.
Maybe that's why composers who write major works for clarinet don't seem to live much longer afterwards... :-)
Actually, the really entertaining thing is to read what the guys on the sax board think of us clarinet players (this is an old thread):
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/archive/index.php/t-25179.html
Post Edited (2008-08-26 03:46)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-08-26 00:45
Old Geezer said, “In the videos his clarinet tone is very poor”. I don’t think I was being arrogant by agreeing with him. I don’t care what room you’re in if you’re going to demonstrate how good something sounds in order to sell it, don’t you think the final result should be a really good sound. Once again I’ll say that I own his reed tool, it’s part of my reed-fixing arsenal and I recommend it to my students that are not comfortable using a knife. Do I think it’s the end all, by no means but I do think it’s good and useful. I think Tom would serve himself, and his business better, if he fixed a reed and showed his public how good his tool can make a reed sound, not just that it will play. Maybe my standard, and Old Geezers, is just to high but I truly think it would serve him better. After all, he’s a businessman isn’t he? I’m guessing that he is putting these on videos to help sell his products, am I wrong? I'm not saying that's a problem. That's what people do. If I'm wrong I apologize to Tom and everyone that doesn’t agree with me. I’m not trying to be arrogant, just truthful. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 Listen to a little Mozart
(The reed I used may very well have been adjusted at some point with Toms reed tool)
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-08-26 00:56
I truly think it would have served Old Geezers and Ed best if Tom wouldn't been so kindly to put those videos on Youtube
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Author: Mark Charette
Date: 2008-08-26 01:02
Iceland clarinet wrote:
> I truly think it would have served Old Geezers and Ed best if
> Tom wouldn't been so kindly to put those videos on Youtube
Tom put them there to sell his product ... not to be 100% altruistic.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-08-26 02:54
If the purpose of Tom's reed finishing video was to get people talking, I'd say he certainly accomplished it.
As the old quote says:
"...There is no such thing as bad publicity - except your own obituary..."
...GBK
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Author: Ryan25
Date: 2008-08-26 03:26
Ed and Geezer,
I'm not trying to give you grief for your comments. I actually agree with you about Tom's sound on the video. I'm just saying it is probably not a good representation of anyone's playing under those circumstances.
Ed your right that he should not have the playing on the video to sell his product if that is the best sound he could give to the viewers. It is of poor quality in every respect.
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-08-26 03:37
GBK,
>"...There is no such thing as bad publicity - except your own obituary..."<
Vicient Van Gogh comes to mind as a polar opposite of the 'old quote.'
Although his sound wasn't great, and i know he probably could have done better, what would you expect from a crappy reed? Most of us could have probably guessed that the reed wasn't going to turn out great as it was already 'shot.' For those who didn't think of that right away, it may have seemed like his tone was bad (and it was), but that's understandable (and not the point of the video).
The point of the video, well two actually, a)publicity and to get people talking (as mentioned by GBK) and b) to prove that his sytem does work. I think he just used a drastic example to show us clearly.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2008-08-26 03:58
Hey, his stupid video was enough to get me to buy his ATG thingy. I have thought about it for a long time and seeing him easily make a reed work was enough for me.
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2008-08-26 04:06
Ok, I've listened to Tom's sound on the Terrorist reed training video, on my 24" IMac which sounds really good and on my Genelec studio monitors and I would love to know what's not good about it. Ok it doesn't sound that great on my Mac book pro. He sounds better that 95% of all clarinetist I've run across in this field. So what is it? The hard rubber clarinet? the non vintage mouthpiece? The politically incorrect hood? How can someone say that this video doesn't sound good? I've seen him in person, heard him play and this man poses and is able to communicate pedagogical concepts that alot of players on this list, by virtue of what I read in their posts, are clueless about.
I have never studied with Tom, but from talking to him, I can tell he would have been a very good teacher to have during an undergrad degree. Much better than some of the DMAs I've run across . It's the nature of this list to blast people who try something different or present it in an unorthodox manner.
I have his reed system, I use it almost everyday on my reeds on my student's reeds. Once in a blue moon I use a piece of reed rush, but mostly it's atg. Most clarinetists don't have a clue about adjusting reeds. I've watched people spend almost 2k$ for machines they think will deliver them to the promised land of reeds. But unless you can do what Tom shows you in his DVD, you won't end up with any better reeds than you will get out of any manufacturers box.
Most clarinetist learn about reeds like high school boys learn about sex in a locker room, lots of information most of it wrong. Tom presents acurate information with easy to learn techniques and a real improvement in results.
Tom Puwalski, not an ATG artist or endorser but someone who can tell a great product when he sees it.
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-08-26 04:29
Thank you Tom P. No beatin' around the bush with that one.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-08-26 04:34
I have to agree here. I don't hear anything wrong with his sound.
to Old G- It's a rubber clarinet. I have one, too. It sounds fine. Doesn't sound like Buffet, but neither do Selmer, Leblanc, Yamaha, Wurlitzer, etc.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-08-26 04:49
Ed Palanker wrote:
> Old Geezer said, “In the videos his clarinet tone is very poor”. I don’t
> think I was being arrogant by agreeing with him.
Neither do I, Ed--I sincerely hope you didn't think I thought that of what you said, as I actually agree with you entirely. In fact, I tried to elaborate on your point above in reponse to Iceland, who I thought was entirely unjustified in calling your remarks "arrogant."
I thought that maybe the poor tone quality was due at least in part to the recording quality and bad acoustics of the room, which is why I responded to ryan25 the way I did. But I hope you didn't think, from reading that post, that I felt you were unjustified in criticizing the video on tone quality or that I would count you among the ranks of the "nitpickers" on this board (on the contrary, you're one of the most positive and most generously helpful folks I've met here--in fact I wish you lived in Dallas because I'd love to take lessons from you!! :-) ).
Like you say, it really shouldn't matter whether the tone quality problems are due to the reed, to Tom Ridenour himself, or to the recording equipment/environment. If he wants to use the video to sell his products, he needs to sound at his best in the video, no matter what.
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Author: mrn
Date: 2008-08-26 05:07
Tom Puwalski wrote:
> Ok, I've listened to Tom's sound on the Terrorist reed training video, on
> my 24" IMac which sounds really good and on my Genelec studio
> monitors and I would love to know what's not good about it. Ok it
> doesn't sound that great on my Mac book pro.
Good point. Maybe it's US (meaning our computers) with the poor sound quality--not Tom Ridenour or even his equipment.
I thought I'd throw in here another plug for Tom Ridenour's teaching/writing. I own his fingerings book and it is hands down the most useful clarinet book I have ever read/used! You can take away Brymer, Pino, or my Clarinettist's Compendium (sorry, Bonade fans)--but don't touch my Ridenour Fingering book!
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-08-26 08:20
His KKK-like blindfold was bad enough, but even worse was the mention of "terrorist". It's very obvious what he means by that word, which actually has nothing to do with that blindfold, and steers it away from the real association. This was definitely enough that I don't want to buy anything from such a person. Lucky me I don't have a problem with reeds even without the ATG system
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Author: buedsma
Date: 2008-08-26 11:45
don't think there was a political opinion or something else hidden there.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-08-26 12:26
Nitai- I agree, the jokes are in very poor taste. They gave me a very bad sensation. They have nothing to do with the product or anything music related at all.
I also thought the 'film-making' was a bit of a turn off.
Take a look at the youtube clips from Reeds 'n Stuff- totally professional and focused on the product. Tom R. doesn't need background music or a room full of clarinet players to make it seem more professional- just a product focused clip.
[edit] I only mention this because some subjects are just not things to joke about. Putting a towel on your head to demonstrate something is one thing, but drawing attention to it and associating with very inappropriate subjects repeatedly is really not the way to get people in a good mood about music.
Post Edited (2008-08-26 23:59)
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Author: DAVE
Date: 2008-08-26 13:38
Some of you guys seriously need to relax. Tom was being silly and clever. If you disagree, fine, but leave it at that. There's no need for all this namby-pamby crap written above. Get over it.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-08-26 14:06
I'd like to thank MRN for his kind words as well as several others. I didn't think I'd get such a reaction from Ice in the first place. I was simply giving my opinion. Don't forget, I recommend the ATG product, let's all just loosen up. We're all entitled to our opinions even if some one doesn’t agree with them. That’s the way we all learn to be more opened minded, learn from each other and be more compatible. ESP
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-08-26 16:42
Thanks for your time and insight Ed, I greatly appreciate your knowledge and your posts (both the ones I agree and disagree with!).
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-08-26 21:18
Finished watching and reading the instruction for the ATG system. I adjusted 5 reeds which 1 of them were good. All the reeds turned out to be fantastic and the good 1 turned out to be Concert quality. And I did this in about 7 minutes.
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-08-28 02:34
New comical yet informative video on removing play in pivot screw mounted keys w/o cutting threads.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6KNv_m1Tq0
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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