 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: David Young
Date: 2008-08-19 16:29
I have an old Hawkes and Son clarinet with the simple system fingering. Nearly two decades ago, the last time it was played, I was told which key it was in but I can't remember whether it was A or Ab (I know it's not Bb).
How do I find out? I have a piano and the fingering chart for simple-system clarinets. Is there a straightforward way to tell using these and the clarinet?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-08-19 16:45
Use the fingering chart and play 'C'. Whatever it matches on the piano is the key your clarinet is in.
Between A and Ab- my 99% guess is 'A'.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-08-19 16:59
It won't be in Ab; there is such a thing as an Ab clarinet, but it's nearly an octave higher than a Bb or A.
If you can get a note out of it, then find out what note it produces when you don't cover any holes and don't touch any keys.
Clarinet players call this note "open G". On a Bb clarinet, it sounds F. On an A clarinet, it sounds E.
There are a couple of things that may catch you out, however. One is that if you aren't a clarinet player, you may play this note quite a lot sharp or flat - it's a very flexible note. Try also playing the note with the thumbhole and all six fingerholes closed, but without touching any keys. This should also be "G", a octave below the "open G".
The other problem is that pitch standards have varied over the years. Modern instruments are tuned to the international standard A=440 in the English-speaking countries, but often to A=442 or A=444 in continental Europe. An instrument of this age, however, may be "high pitch"; this means it is something like A=452, nearly half a semitone higher than modern pitch. If the note you get is halfway between E and F on the piano, then probably this is a high-pitch A clarinet.
(Some people on this BBoard use "high pitch" to mean an instrument built to A=442. That's not what I mean by high pitch - I'm talking about a MUCH higher pitch, now obsolete.)
The other way of determining the key (and pitch standard) is to measure the length of the instrument. Unfortunately I can't tell you what length to look for, because simple system clarinets aren't quite the same length as the equivalent Boehm instrument.
Be aware that high-pitch instruments are almost valueless, and the market for simple-system instruments is very small. By all means satisfy your curiosity, but don't assume that this instrument is worth anything.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Young
Date: 2008-08-19 17:14
Thanks for the replies. This is what I've found so far:
Open G gives me F#.
C gives me B natural.
By comparison, with my slightly taller, plastic Bb clarinet:
Open G give me F.
C gives me Bb (as would be expected).
Would that make the brass one an Ab clarinet?
Incidentally, I have no intention of selling it. I just want to take up the clarinet and use my metal one in addition to the cheap plastic one I bought to practise with.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-08-19 17:45
No, it would make the Hawkes a B natural clarinet.
There are three possibilities.
I. It's a high-pitch Bb clarinet, and you are lipping the notes up so as to make it a full semitone above modern pitch.
2. It's a genuine B natural clarinet, at modern pitch. This is unlikely. Mozart wrote a couple of opera numbers for B natural clarinet, which are invariably played on the A clarinet these days. I suppose it is just possible that Hawkes may have built a B natural instrument. If so, then this instrument may be a bit of a rarity and (contrary to what I said before) it may have some monetary value. But even if Hawkes built a B natural instrument, I can't imagine that they would have made it of metal - metal instruments were made for use in bands, not opera houses.
3. It's a hybrid monster consisting of part of a C clarinet and part of a Bb clarinet. Hawkes did make simple system C clarinets (see http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/euchmi/ucis.html for proof). Whether the parts would fit together I have no idea.... but this makes no sense either, metal clarinets aren't made to come apart like wooden ones do.
Is your plastic instrument not a Boehm system? You are going to get very confused if you try to learn both systems at once. Also, a B natural instrument is useless for playing with anyone else (except for those couple of bits of Mozart).
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: David Young
Date: 2008-08-19 18:18
It has a built in music stand screw so it was clearly designed for use in a marching band. I did notice though, when finding which note on the piano corresponded to a sound from the clarinet, that it was a toss-up between two, and I wrote the one that sounded the closest.
One other detail was that when using my Boehm clarinet, F sounds a little different from the brass one, although the latter can achieve the same sound by using the thumb, index finger and a register on the side.
It's a bit like some of those eye tests at the opticians, because when I now play them one after the other, the same notes do largely sound the same. It's possible, because I do not have perfect pitch, that my attempt at matching their notes via the piano is somewhat far from perfect.
I quite like the challenge of learning both systems at once, as I'm only learning for recreational purposes. Nevertheless, the newer, plastic one (the Boehm) certainly gives a more pleasant sound.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: alanporter
Date: 2008-08-20 00:29
Invest in a chromatic tuner, it will tell you exactly what note you are playing. You can get a reasonably good one for less than $20.
tiaroa@shaw.ca
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-08-20 11:02
It's probably sharp pitch (452Hz) as most of these old Hawkes&Son clarinets were.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-08-20 13:23
I agree with Chris P, he knows British mfgr. very well, also your open G sounding F#. There may have been a [very] few cls made pitched in B Nat., but its unlikely you have one. Is there an "HP", or an "LP", on the cl, most likely in the logo area of the U J , which would answer your questions? You would [prob.] have great difficulty in tuning while playing with modern [Bb] cls, pitched to A=440, even with transposing a half tone. Luck, Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-08-20 13:43
These clarinets were standard issue with all military bands in the UK and British Empire back in the time when there were various different pitches - sharp pitch or high pitch ('HP') was used with marching bands as it sounds much brighter in both pitch and timbre than low pitch ('LP').
If you listen to military band players they do tend to go for a bright sound that cuts through as opposed to orchestral players whose sound has much more tonal depth and blends with the others around them.
This is the kind of sound Kenneth Alford would have had in mind when writing his marches - the solo and 1st clarinets playing their obbligato parts in unison (usually up in the stratosphere as the clarinets are taking on the role as violins) along with the piccolos cuts right through the rest of the band, and with the brightness of the cornets they will have to top that to cut through.
I don't think these old Boosey&Co. or Hawkes&Son clarinets were marked 'HP' or 'LP' - the ones I've seen had no markings at all so it's a gamble if you're going to buy one as you won't be able to tell (without a modern clarinet as a referrence) what pitch it could be.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clar6580
Date: 2008-08-21 19:38
Hi,
There is an Ab clarinet, and it is the sopranino. That's the highest pitched clarinet.
Kimberly
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-08-21 20:40
This is interesting as I got hold of a clarinet that I think is in B natural. The instrument has no markings except for a B on both joints. It has it's original mouthpiece which is a dark rosewood colour but I don't think it is roeswood. The system I think is Muller or something similar from the 1840s onwards. I've played this with the original mouthpiece and at different pitches. At 'Romantic' pitch (A - 434 roughly, can be higher) the instrument plays in tune a semitone above, but at A - 460 it plays in tune at a tone above. Try working that one out.
Peter Cigleris
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
