 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Cindyr
Date: 2008-08-13 02:27
I purchased a Selmer Sax (not used, AS300) for my son. This will be a nice upgrade from the Bundy 2 he started with last year, at least in the way it looks. A new sax deserves a good sax swab, which I drilled the importance of using into him last year. Which is a good one? I'm thinking of the Hodge silk, but wonder if it's strong enough to do the job. It would be easy to use for the neck, etc. Recommendations would be appreciated. Also, advice on a soft sax bag that would be suitable for going on the bus. The older Bundy 2 hard cases are actually more easy to transport than the newer (1990's?) hard cases, as they got bigger. I'll also need to purchase the screw that that holds the neck in place, where can I get this? This sax also came with a Yamaha 4C mouthpiece, which I assume would be fine to use with it. My son has been playing for a year on the standard Bundy set-up, and will be going into 5th grade.
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-08-13 02:55
I wouldn't suggest a soft case for saxophone. This is an accident waiting to happen. The Hodge would be fine for a swab. If you want to be fussy I would suggest the following for care. After finishing playing examine the palm keys for moisture. Open them one a time and check. Put the Hodge silk under the keys to absorb excess water or use cigarette paper(non sticky). After this check the G# and low Eb. If they are sticky then put a piece of paper under each of the pads for storage. If they are sticky when you put it in the case it won't be better when you open the case up. I would also check for any other sticky pads. Put the keys near you ears and listen for sticking. Yamaha powder paper does a good job. Don't overuse these but used judiciously they are good.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-08-13 09:58
There are pros and cons for anything, and for the run-of-the-mill pad saver, the pad-wrecking lint-shedding is a might big con.
However I recently tested an HW brand pad saver. I thrust it in and out of my alto 3000 times, over a large sheet of white paper. The only visible lint produced was a single significant tuft right at the beginning.
This brand is in a league of its own, and I think the pros easily outweigh the cons.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-08-13 10:04
Arnold wrote "I wouldn't suggest a soft case for saxophone. This is an accident waiting to happen."
There are soft "cases" which are really only fabric bags, and using them is as silly as carrying your unprotected crystal glassware around in a similar soft, opaque bag. People cannot even see that the contents is fragile, and the bag offers close to zero protection, other than against dust and rain.
However there are also various very light rectangular cases containing a lot of well-lined, sax-hugging polyurethane foam, including an option offered by Selmer Paris. These probably offer better protection, especially against knocks and drops than most hard cases, which typically support the sax in only a few places.
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Author: Danny Boy
Date: 2008-08-13 10:33
Chris - do you leave the padsaver in the instrument between plays?
I'm happy for my students to use them so long as they use the padsaver like a swab and then store it somewhere else in the case rather than in the bore of the instrument. I actually find this better than most sax swabs, which don't seem to get much out.
I can't see how leaving a damp padsaver (or a damp anything!) in the instrument can be good - as you say you'd never do it to your clarinets.
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-08-13 10:47
I always leave the pad saver in the bore while it's cased up as there's nowhere else for it to go in the case, and they're designed to be left down the bore. I've used them in this manner for over 20 years and haven't had any trouble.
I've seen people use them, then immediately take them out and place them on top of the sax before shutting the lid. I'd never place anything on top of my saxes before closing the lid as that can do damage.
As the sax body is brass it isn't affected by moisture as a wooden clarinet would be, and I've seen the state of clarinet bores where players have used pad savers.
They don't work on clarinets as the fibres won't go anywhere near the pads. On saxes they distribute the moisture evenly in the bore and when first put in, they remove the excess water from the closed top pads (high D-F#). I usually put them in and twist the stopper part so it works like a car wash brush on the inside and distributes the condensation more evenly.
The pool of water that forms in the bell bow has already been tipped out before I put the pad saver in.
I recommend these pad savers (HW) as they are made of synthetic fibres, they don't shed fibres easily and the fibres compress right down to the wire core so there's no chance of them getting snagged on the lower 8ve tube when put in or removed.
The more dense variety of pad savers that don't compress much run the risk of breaking the solder joint on the 8ve tube on some saxes that have an 8ve tube that protrudes a fair way into the bore (eg. Yamaha).
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
Post Edited (2008-08-13 10:52)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-08-13 11:35
Although I use a pad-saver swab (onto which I've sewn a cotton flannel bag that I can remove and wash) in the "drainpipe" that connects down to the neck of my bass sax, because it's the only practical way to swab there, I never leave the pad-wrecker in any sax or clarinet. I've used the same three silk swabs for soprano, alto and tenor saxes since the late 1990s. The swabs haven't torn or worn out. I hand-wash them occasionally with Woolite. When they're damp, I hang them over the back of my music stand until they dry, before I put them back in the cases.
I don't use soft gig bags and I'd never send a gig bag on a school bus -- probably the worst possible environment for hard knocks.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-08-13 11:58
DannyBoy wrote "I'm happy for my students to use them so long as they use the padsaver like a swab and then store it somewhere else in the case rather than in the bore of the instrument. "
It's easy to assume that leaving the "saver" inside the sax inside the case is bad, but is it?....
I rather suspect that a constant cycle of leather being wet/dry/wet/dry is worse for it than the leather retaining some humidity between wettings.
Do you have any evidence to the contrary? The wet/dry cycle sure seems to be a good way to wreck shoe leather.
Climate may be a relevant factor too.
Post Edited (2008-08-13 11:58)
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-08-13 12:13
"I never leave the pad-wrecker in any sax"
Have you had any of your saxes 'wrecked' by them?
I've used a tenor neck saver in the top coil of my bari for the past 18 years (since it was new) and it's spotless.
My current alto (YAS-875EX) is now 5 years old and I've used a pad saver in it from day one (as I have done with my previous 62 altos which had the older style of Yamaha pads that weren't coated) and as of yet there have been no ill-effects. The G# pad has never stuck in all that time.
As I said, I wouldn't use or recommend them if they did any harm to my own instruments - my own saxes are the last instruments I would want to do any serious work on.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2008-08-13 13:23
I use two sizes of GEM silk swabs and a pad saver for my tenor saxophone.
I use a clarinet silk swab to pull through the mouthpiece and neck. Second, I use a saxophone silk swab to pull through the body of the horn. Finally, I push in and pull out the pad saver a number of times while I open each of the closed keys. I've discovered that using the pad saver in this way catches moisture that the swab does not get.
I do not keep the pad saver in the bore of my horn. It does not make logical sense to me to do that. Rather, what does make sense is to dry the horn as much as practically possible with the swabing and then give the bore room to air out.
I use a pad saver as, in effect, an additional swab only for saxophone. I've found a silk swab by itself to be all I need for my clarinet, bass clarinet, flute, and alto flute.
Since most of my playing is in doubling situations, when I'm done using the pad saver to swab out my tenor I put it in the bag that contains my instrument stands. Thus, it's not kept in my tenor case.
This thread has been helpful to me in thinking about how much additional value the pad saver really has. I'm thinking that I might get similar results for the closed keys -- ie, palm keys, G#, etc -- by opening the key, putting a section of the silk swab between the pad and the tone hole and closing the key. I'm thinking that using a silk swab in this manner might dry a pad perhaps even better than using a pad saver. I'll try this and see how it works. If it works as well as I hope it does I could then retire the pad saver as one less thing I need to haul with my equipment.
One thing I try to keep in mind when it comes to musicial equipment is discerning whether something is reasonable & practical or if it becomes overkill or even marketing hype.
Roger
Post Edited (2008-08-13 19:10)
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-08-14 15:34
I wrote,
>I never leave the pad-wrecker in any sax>
Chris P wrote,
>>Have you had any of your saxes 'wrecked' by them?>>
No, because I never leave the pad-wrecker in there. However, I've bought saxes and clarinets with pads wrecked from moisture trapped in the case. One of the worst I ever saw was a flea market alto sax with a pad-saver inside that had rotted down to moldy black shreds. This was one of the earlier generation of pad-savers made of white cotton (construction similar to a dust mop). I imagine the modern, synthetic fluff pad savers fare better, but even so, in humid Virginia, leaving anything wet in the case is asking for trouble. I've mentioned here before that I once scooped a fist-sized rubbery fungus out of the inside curve in the bell of an excellent tenor sax. Yuck.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2008-08-14 16:30
Reality check time....
A saxophone will air dry in very little time after it's been swabbed. When I'm practicing at home I'll leave my horn case open for a few minutes after swabbing and putting the horn away just to give the horn some air. At the end of a performance I'll give my horn a good swabbing, put it in the case, and go home. By the time I get home if I open the case to check on my horn it's usually dry.
With this in mind, I honestly don't understand the logic of keeping a pad saver in the bore of an instrument. I cannot help but think it would be more effective to simply open the case and give the horn some air.
Am I missing something here?
The biggest problem, I think, is putting a horn dripping wet in a case and leaving it shut for a period of time. One's asking for trouble. However, a resonable swabbing routine and giving a horn air should be all one needs to do.
All of that said, if one's horn benefits from using a pad saver then by all means use it.
Roger
Post Edited (2008-08-14 16:49)
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Author: Cindyr
Date: 2008-08-14 20:03
Thanks for all of the insight about how to properly take care of the sax, it's a bit different from the clarinet. I think I'll go with the silk swab and teach him about pad savers this year. My son gave me the report that "only one other kid and I" swab the instrument, but most of them are rentals. In the school band environment, they have to pack up and leave after the practice is over, and can't air dry the instrument. Doesn't sound too favorable about the soft case. I'm going to keep the Bundy 2 as a back up (another thing I've learned from this board) and he can switch the cases if he wants.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-08-15 06:40
Many people locally like the BG swab, the one with the sponge (or something) in the middle of it that keeps it touching the bore. I checked it a little bit and looks like it's very good.
I don't like the GEM swab that someone mentioned, at least not the one I had for clarinet (which I quickly changed). It is longer than other swabs (about double) so I needed to move my hand back and pull it again to make it go all the way through (can stretch my hands more but not comfortable). Also it just didn't dry fast like other swabs, and I needed to pass it two times for the bore to look dry the same as after one pass of a good swab.
>> I honestly don't understand the logic of keeping a pad saver in the bore of an instrument.
The logic is that many times there is no other place to put it. Sometimes the only other place is inside the case, so then the question is whether it makes much difference if it's actually inside the instrument or just next to it. Other than that I can only go by experience of people who used it. I have heard from several very experienced players/repairers that they have no problem with keeping pad savers inside instruments. However from those who are against it, they usually just "think it might not be good". I don't use a pad saver because I already have swabs and don't see a good enough reason to change, but until I see someone who used a (good!) pad saver and had a problem as a result of that I don't see a reason to believe they cause any problems (only talking about a good pad saver).
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Author: Chris P
Date: 2008-08-15 09:53
Provided you remove excess moisture by tipping the puddle of condensation from out the bell and shaking the crook out after playing, you won't have any trouble with pad savers. And another way to remove moisture with pad savers is to put them in, take them out again and wipe them on something absorbant (like your shirt) and then put them back in.
Former oboe finisher
Howarth of London
1998 - 2010
The opinions I express are my own.
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