 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: autumnsilence
Date: 2008-08-09 22:09
i have been playing clarinet since 7th grade (now going into 11th grade). and i plan on taking it into college as well. The first two years i played i have no the slightest idea what 'make/model/brand' or mouthpiece i was using because it didnt really seem relevnt for me to check at the time. When i entered highschool i played a Selmer Cl300 which i still use but have never checked the mouthpiece type/brand. i would love to check now, but it is currently at my house a few miles away. Since my parents didnt want to spend money on one if i didnt want to play it ihave been borrowing the instruments from the school, and the Selmer is from my friend who doesnt use it anymore.
I decided it was time for an upgrade and i wanted to get an intermediate Buffet of some sort seeing as i have only played on student instruments so far, and that even a Buffet R13 was a little out of my price range at the time. So i settled on a Buffet B12 (which should be getting here any day now) which i know is still a beginner but its in much better shape than my current iinstrument and will last me until i get another. my mouthpiece though, is in desperte need of replacement, and i dont know how good the one coming with the B12 is. The mouthpiece that came with my selmer was obviously used before i had it, seeing as there are heavy teeth marks indented on the top and i know they arent from me since i am a double lip lpplayer and never use my teeth. its pretty worn and there is even the slightest hint of mold growing on the ligature, getting to the point where i really dont want it near my mouth.
the problem is there are SOOOO many mouthpieces out there and i have no idea which one to choose. I know everyone suggests 'try before you buy' but in the insanely small town i live, that realyl isnt possible unless i drive 200 some miles to the next city, and even there i dont know how good there music shop is. Any suggestions would be good. I plan on getting a Buffet intermediate clarinet as soon as the money is avalable for it so ifi get one, im sure it will be played on both begginer and intermediate clarinets, possibly a professional. Im not asking for a full in depth description of the different types cause i know that would take forever but just a nudge in the right direction thanks..
i heard Vandoren was good, and might look into that..
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-08-09 22:17
The band director at our city high school recommends Vandoren B45 mouthpieces for all his clarinet players. (His wife is professional clarinetist.)
I played on a B45 for longer than you've been alive and was always pleased with the response and the sound. I just recently bought a Vandoren M13 Lyre and I like it very much.
If you are not already taking lessons, can you perhaps meet with a clarinet instructor (perhaps at a college nearby) to get some feedback?
You'll get some good advice and opinions on here but trying out different mouthpieces with an instructor is probably the best way to go. If you can't do that, my opinion is that a B45 would be find for you.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: bcl1dso
Date: 2008-08-09 22:33
just get an M15 and call it a day...Bonade said to go out to the middle of a lake with a box of mouthpieces...put a blindfold on...pick one...throw the rest overboard...then go home and practice! The point is, just get something decent and learn how to play it.
Post Edited (2008-08-10 17:33)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: VDav0
Date: 2008-08-09 22:39
Many band directors do recommend Vandoren B45 because they are more open and respond more favorably to less refined reeds as well as well kept reeds. In addition to the excellent suggestions Claire has made I would also add the 5RV, the 5RV lyre, the M15 and the M20 as well. These are excellent mouthpieces, however not extremely consistent. I would recommend that you get one of each and try them all out. Once you decide which make you like best you could then return the ones you don't want and get another five of that specific make and compare them against each other in different categories you may establish yourself or with your teacher like response in chalameau, clarion and altissimo registers, staccato response, dynamic response, variance in reed makes, strengths and types, intonation in all registers, legato playing, checking how they respond to extended techniques, et cetera. Once you do this you can compare them in some sort of chart and decide which is the best. I would recommend also keeping your second best as a back up just in case you break one, which I have SEEN happen and its absolutely heartbreaking.
If you plan on playing clarinet for a living, you might also consider the Gregory Smith mouthpiece. What is important to consider is the price of this mouthpiece (it is rather expensive), its resistance (its professional level), its fragility (VERY VERY fragile) and the fact that there is a waiting list (when I got mine it was three months).
I would, however, encourage the Vandoren line of mouthpieces because they work spectacularly. Last I heard there were a few members of The President's Own clarinet section playing on Vandorens.
In any case, Good Luck and Happy Hunting! :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: rgames
Date: 2008-08-09 23:14
Most of the large mail-order retailers will let you order a whole bunch of mouthpieces then return the ones you don't want. It's much better than trying them in a store because you can take them to rehearsals and gigs.
So just order 12 or 15 mouthpieces you think you might like, try them out, then send back the ones you don't like. Of course, they charge you for all of them up front, so that charge will sit on your credit card while you're evaluating them...
rgames
____________________________
Richard G. Ames
Composer - Arranger - Producer
www.rgamesmusic.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-08-09 23:23
rgames wrote:
> Most of the large mail-order retailers will let you order a
> whole bunch of mouthpieces then return the ones you don't want.
> It's much better than trying them in a store because you can
> take them to rehearsals and gigs.
>
> So just order 12 or 15 mouthpieces you think you might like,
> try them out, then send back the ones you don't like. Of
> course, they charge you for all of them up front, so that
> charge will sit on your credit card while you're evaluating
> them...
>
> rgames
>
Unfortunately, they usually charge a sterilization and restocking fee for wach mouthpiece oyu return, so if you order a dozen or so mouthpieces and the chage for each returned one is $3-5, that adds up for someone still in high school!
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-08-10 02:37
I would also suggest the Fobes Nova, to be tried in comparison with the Genussa and the Vandoren models. This is typically how I guide students to the next level of mouthpiece.
I would also add that there are many stores that will not allow you have to have any more than three mouthpieces at one time....
Nonetheless...distance shouldn't preclude you from trying several mouthpieces at the same time.
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2008-08-10 03:05
Claire Annette wrote:
> The band director at our city high school recommends
> Vandoren B45 mouthpieces for all his clarinet players.
The last time a band director told me that all his students were required to play B45's, I asked him if all the members of his marching band wore the same size shoes.
After all, wouldn't they march better if all the shoes were the identical size?
He quickly got the point and dropped the ridiculous B45 requirement.
This really touches on an important point about band directors being brainwashed (brain dead?) about the "B45 mouthpiece mentality".
Far too many band directors have not strayed from their college 101 Instrumental Techniques course, when they were all told about the "recommended" mouthpieces for the different instruments.
The big 4:
Bach 7C for trumpet, Bach 12C for trombone, Meyer 7M for alto sax and B45 for clarinet.
It's about time some of these directors took a refresher course, or better yet, tried to play a few of the above instruments.
...GBK (a retired band director)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-08-10 03:11
Vandoren mouthpieces can be purchased for around $65-70. My favorite is *not* the B45, especially for a student. The M15 is in my opinion a better choice, reed friendly and not too close or too open.
I would also recommend buying a well-designed student mouthpiece:
Brad Behn “Overture”
Clark Fobes "Debut"
Ben Redwine "Mezzo"
which are about half the price of a Vandoren mouthpiece.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-08-10 03:30
When you get the B12, the first thing you need to do is open the case, take out the mouthpiece, cap, ligature all in it's pretty little plastic wrapper and set it on fire.
Then buy yourself one of the Vandorens. They are quite reasonable and you can choose from a variety, which you need to try before buying. If you can't afford the Vandy, look into a Fobes Debut or similar mouthpiece from other smaller makers.
I find all stock Buffet mouthpieces, well, suck.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2008-08-10 05:25
Vanessa Davis wrote:
"Many band directors do recommend Vandoren B45 because they are more open and respond more favorably to less refined reeds as well as well kept reeds."
I'm wondering where you heard this reason for band directors' recommending the B45? I mean, what is it about the fact that a mouthpiece is open that makes it "respond more favorably to less refined reeds [cheap student reeds like student Ricos?] as well as well kept reeds [professional reeds like Vandorens?]"? Perhaps it would help if you would explain what you mean by "respond more favorably." And if this claim is true, why doesn't everyone play open mouthpieces?
Vanessa also wrote:
"What is important to consider [about a Greg Smith mouthpiece] is ... its resistance (its professional level), its fragility (VERY VERY fragile)...."
What do you mean by "professional level resistance"? Does the 5RV have "professional level resistance"? What about the B45? And, out of curiosity, which Greg Smith mouthpieces did you try when you bought yours?
Also, why do you say that Greg Smith mouthpieces are apparently more fragile than other mouthpieces (e.g., Vandorens)? It seems to me that they shouldn't be any more fragile than other mouthpieces made of the same material. But maybe I'm missing something.
I guess I'm just dense and need help understanding these points.
Best regards,
jnk
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Michael E. Shultz
Date: 2008-08-10 11:20
"The big 4:
Bach 7C for trumpet, Bach 12C for trombone, Meyer 7M for alto sax and B45 for clarinet."
Isn't the Meyer 7M a bit open for a standard alto sax mouthpiece? Back in my day (1970's), we used the Meyer 5M, or even a 4M. I ended up buying a Gale 5M because it had a darker sound.
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read."
Groucho Marx
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed
Date: 2008-08-10 12:43
Recently I tried the Fobes Nova, which is his intermediate mouthpiece. It is a very nice hand finished mouthpiece. It can be found for only a few dollars more than the Vandoren mouthpieces. I would be happy to recommend this to any student and would even be comfortable playing it myself.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: VDav0
Date: 2008-08-10 13:11
Jack - all I was trying to say, in a nice way, was that the B45 is a less advanced mouthpiece. I didn't want to deter the student from trying it simply because she heard that it isn't considered as advanced as the others in the Vandoren line. I have been told by many band directors that they recommend them because they respond to a variety of reeds well i.e., they can make a reasonably good sound with nearly any reed where on an M15 a 3 with a small chip just won't cut it. Everyone doesn't play more open mouthpieces because without the more dense reed it is nearly impossible to get the refined, focused tone of a professional player, a wide breadth of dynamic contrast is more difficult to attain and the intonation is more of a challenge. If you haven't already tried a B45 you should get one and try it and I think you would see where I was coming from a but more clearly. I don't think that these things are bad for a young player to experience. The mouthpiece isn't bad it just takes a bit more to control; and by "a bit more" I mean appropriate pressure applied from embouchure and appropriate air support.
As for the Greg Smiths, I tried the C (Chedeville) and K (Caspar, not Cicero) makes in the 1* facing. I haven't yet tried the new S make. I personally prefer the C 1*. It works very well for me. I was telling the student that these mouthpieces are much, much more closed without making them sound frightening to her. I have found that they are indeed more fragile than Vandoren mouthpieces. I have no idea why this is but have seen many Vandorens hit the floor from the hands of my students and others and they don't shatter completely where I have also seen two Greg Smiths fall and immediately shatter. This has been my experience with these mouthpieces.
If you have nay more questions feel free. :-) As you most likely know I am new here but very excited to learn and contribute. Take care.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-08-10 14:21
Vanessa not to gang up on you, but many pros play and have played the B45 mouthpiece. The B40, a very popular mouthpiece in Europe and somewhat popular in US, is also quite open.
The reason why I do not recommend the B45 to a student is that it is one of the most open "classical" vandoren. In a somewhat inexperienced player the B45 can be hard to control and lead to biting if the reed is too hard. This where I like the M15 and M30, because they provide a good middle ground.
As for the more expensive man made designer mouthpiece, I also do not recommend them until one knows exactly what one wants and interacts with a maker in achieving that goal.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: VDav0
Date: 2008-08-10 14:27
Sylvain - I am happy to learn from everyone! No need to feel like you're ganging up. Everyone has different opinions and I didn't know that thing about Europeans playing on B45s. I'm here to learn as well! Thanks for the info Sylvain! :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-08-10 15:05
This and many other theads seem to basically neglect the fact that it is you, "Autumn Silence" who makes the sound, who searches for solutions to playing intervals and articulations, it is not and never is/was/orwill be the mouthpiece. Only when you get to a point where you can say a certain mouthpiece facilitates the achievement of these problems can you or anyone really discern what is the proper mouthpiece for you.
For whatever reasons this was never ever on my mind as a student. I had problems to solve, many things which came only with practice and trying different ways of support, embouchure , fingering, legato and staccato,, tongue and everything that goes into,"the sound". (Problems which return again and again.)
Everyone can and will give you their preference and many directors will determine that each clarinet shall play the same facing of the same mouthpiece. They do this for (hopefully) intonation and they say it is for "the same sound', but they don't know. You know, and that knowledge comes only after you have developed to a certain extent.
If you have 50 Van Doren mouthpieces with the designation B45, each will play differently, yes, like fingerprints, no two mouthpieces are the same.
If you take but a part of what I say, you will realize that there is only one common denominator here, and that is you who determines what it is that will render for you, what it is you want .
Sherman Friedland
Post Edited (2008-08-10 15:06)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2008-08-10 15:59
Vanessa said:
"I have found that they are indeed more fragile than Vandoren mouthpieces. I have no idea why this is but have seen many Vandorens hit the floor from the hands of my students and others and they don't shatter completely where I have also seen two Greg Smiths fall and immediately shatter. This has been my experience with these mouthpieces."
------------------------
Vanessa -
I really do appreciate your mentioning my mouthpieces. As you are probably aware, universalizing one's own experience for others has it's own logical pitfalls.
Concerning the fragility of different mouthpieces/material, etc: in the very large sense, one would need to design scientific, controlled experiments to reach any conclusions rather then relying on one person's experience (anecdotal evidence).
Gregory Smith
http://www.gregory-smith.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-08-10 16:08
Greg makes really *really* great mouthpieces. I've got a couple of students who are playing them and they love em. After trying them I was also impressed. To me they are among the "best of the best" out there currently, no comparison to the Vandorens.
My personal opinion.
The only mouthpiece I know of that won't break when dropped is the rico grafonite - and believe me you don't want to play that....
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Hank Lehrer
Date: 2008-08-10 16:17
GBK,
Yikes, I'm playing a 7M on alto and a B45 on clarinet. I guess I never got over Instrumental Techniques 101!
IMHO Autuumsilence can't go too far wrong with a B45 or B40 as a starting point.
HRL
PS But I still use a Selmer C* on soprano as well as bari with a Rico Royal B5 or M5 on tenor. And I've still got a short shank Selmer E and a Brilhart Tonalin 5* as alto backups (I'm the original owner) so I have been somewhat adventuresome in the past.
Take about some vintage collectibles. Should I tell Lynne that they are in my will for you?
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: VDav0
Date: 2008-08-10 16:48
Absolutely! There was no disrespect intended at all. I LOVE the mouthpiece I have that you made and wanted to recommend it. :-)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: russjm
Date: 2008-08-10 19:31
For what it's worth in my limited experience so far............
I just spent a few days trying out a B45 on my old B&H Regent, and I just could not control it at all, I found it very hard to produce anything in the way of a good tone to me. I've ended up with the old unknown make of mouthpiece, slimmer and with a smaller apeture than the B45 from my old instrument back on, and I'm playing some great tunes again, much easier.
I just don't know if I should persevere with the B45 or stick with old faithful.
I'm also looking at a Vandoren 5RV Lyre instead. I believe it'll be nearer to my old mouthpiece but of much better quality. However, I've also read a thread on here, where a player mentioned that he's started on a cheapo unknown mouthpiece, and stuck with it for years since because it worked just fine and he didn't see the point in changing it.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Gregory Smith ★2017
Date: 2008-08-10 21:11
"There was no disrespect intended at all."
----------------
And none was taken...
Gregory Smith
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-08-11 06:14
Sound like you want to replace your old, used, and a little gross mouthpiece, and you are buying a new student clarinet. Also you want to order the mouthpiece by mail. Some say the stock Buffet mouthpieces are terrible, so I just tried one I have and it's fine. It's just a bit resistant and needs a very soft reed (for me at least). Maybe it isn't great but I've tried expensive mouthpieces that are not better. The one that comes with your clarinet could be very different though. I'd try it anyway.
In your situation I wouldn't buy an expensive mouthpiece and probably wouldn't order many to try either. I'd go for one of the several inepxensive but very good mouthpieces that are available. At least a few I've tried (in no particualr order) are Yamaha, Fobes Debut, Hite Premiere. I'm sure there are more. You shouldn't have a problem with those. Once you decide you want a "better" mouthpiece you can order to try, drive to another city, etc. to find it. If you are going to study clarinet in university maybe that is a good place to find a mouthpiece, maybe from the teacher, etc.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
