 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Rene
Date: 2000-09-18 05:43
There seem to be German clarinets with smaller bore (even with Oehler system) and "other" clarinets with wider bore. The German ones also use smaller reeds and a longer facing.
I keep asking myself how these differences affect the tone. Will a German clarinet always have a more centered clearer tone, and others a warmer, broader tone? What is your oppinion?
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Author: Hans
Date: 2000-09-18 10:18
Bore of German/Austrian clarinets varies from 14.75 mm - 15.00 mm.
See for instance site of Schwenk&Seggelke (Bamberg, Germany)
The character of the sound depends on a lot of variables, such as bore, but also the set-up, mouthpiece and reed.
There was a lot of discussion in the past about the "German" sound, related to the German Instruments, see the archives.
I'm playing various older German system instruments (Fritz Wurlitzer) from bore width 15,00 mm (Schmidt-Kolbe system, 1951) till 14,85 mm (Reform Boehm, 1964). The difference between the models and bores is relevant for me personally, but i'm wondering if it's the same for the audience.
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Author: ron b.
Date: 2000-09-18 17:52
Hans -
This topic has come up time and again and again and...
my personal opinion is that the horn and 'setup' is relative to the player - how you feel about it, if it feels good to you, if it responds to you the way you want it to, etc.
The audience knows if it sounds good (or not).
ron b.
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Author: Joris van den Berg
Date: 2000-09-18 22:10
In a test with a Herbert Wurlitzer german system, a buffet RC and a Leblanc Opus and concerto, we came to the conclussion that a different player (wich were all professionals) made more difference than the instrument.
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Author: Frank
Date: 2000-09-19 01:00
I couldn't agree more, Joris. The boys of the Chicago Symphony occasionally play German clarinet on German pieces. In the audience (or on recording), I can't really tell the difference--that might be because I always have the cheap seats. And Michelle Zukovsky of the Los Angeles Phil. is playing on a German system clarinet. I heard her play the Copland in Sacramento a few years ago and it didn't sound different to me (again I had the cheap seats.) So, it's definately the play that makes the horn, more than the horn makes the player.
That's my 1 1/2 cents.
Frank
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Author: Chris Ondaatje
Date: 2000-09-19 02:45
The relationship between bore and quality of tone leaves me confused as does the concept of what is the dark "German" tone,the "French" sound, the open "English tone etc...
German players seem to have a variety of tones. I can't imagine that the quality of legato that Karl Leister gets is possible to obtain on a French system Clarinet,at least it isn't for me anyway.Compare Karl's sound with Ernst Ottensamer and then listen to the bright articulated style of Dieter Klocker. I assume they have differing set ups contributing to the different sounds.
When people taik about the "German" sound it could mean a variety of tones. However neither of the three players mentioned above sound like they play on French Clarinets,trying to describe the difference is difficult.The size and shape of the bore must contribute to the tone.
(Herbert)Wurlitzers have a 14.70mm bore,this contrasts with the 14.65 polycylindrical R13.Therefore you would assume the larger bore contributes to the so called "dark" German tone.To further confuse the issue Selmer has a 14.55mm bore on its new Signature soprano.Of which Tom Ridenour says:
"Its dark Germanic tone and Boehm system facility is the very combination many American players have long desired."
I haven't heard the instrument so maybe bore size isn't a major factor in the colour of the tone. Perhaps tapering ratios or mouthpiece-reed combinations affect the sound.
I'm interested in any further thoughts.
Regards Chris.
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Author: Rene
Date: 2000-09-19 05:34
Thanks for the answers till now. The hole thing is confusing, unless you accept the fact that the bore diameter has little to do with sound quality, at least not as much as the player.
Just to add one thing: In a book it was claimed that the hight of the mouthpiece bore just below the tip will give the sound a more classical or jazzical characteristic. Hmmm.
Rene
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Author: Joris van den Berg
Date: 2000-09-19 08:00
As a player the different bore size can be noticed, but one tends to adjust the playing so that about the same sound gets out.
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Author: thomas
Date: 2000-09-19 08:45
I use German System and a Buffet. I eliminate the
effect of the reeds and the mp (i play on both Systems
a Viotto mp with G3 Facing using Vandoren White Master 3),
and IMHO the German clarinet and the Buffet
feel and sound totally different (German: lot of Resistance,
very round, dark and compact, Buffet: much less resistance, clear, bright, resonant, focussed). I like both (depending on the music i am playing).
Of course there exist within the buzz-word German Sound a lot of different sound colours depending on the bore of the clarinet, the mp, the reeds and last but not least the musician.
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Author: larry
Date: 2000-09-19 18:17
Chris wrote:
"(Herbert)Wurlitzers have a 14.70mm bore,this contrasts with the 14.65 polycylindrical R13.Therefore you would assume the larger bore contributes to the so called "dark" German tone.To further confuse the issue Selmer has a 14.55mm bore on its new Signature soprano."
I thought that the Signature and R13 had the same bore size. Much depends on where the bore is measured, but they advertise the same size, as I remember.
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Author: Chris Ondaatje
Date: 2000-09-20 04:17
Reply to Larry:
My information on the Bore sizes comes from an article by Lee Gibson in "The Clarinet" Vollume 27, No3.I'm pretty sure the R13 figure is accurate as I have seen this figure quoted in a number of differing contexts. The Selmer Signature measurement of 14.55mm I am not so sure,though his articles(Gibson) seem well researched.If you find any contradictory information please let me know.
Regards Chris.
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