 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2008-07-29 22:17
Could some of you that have played for years describe to a beginner how/what you are "thinking" as you play along, especially with rapid passages?
To me, playing quarter notes (and sometimes 1/8th notes) at 60 bpm requires me to think only of the immediate note ahead. I have read where the more experienced can be thinking several notes ahead. It seems almost impossible that anyone could actually do this beyond 3 or 4 notes, but I'm sure good players can. Could it be a little bit like driving a car in that you subconsciously adjust the steering without even thinking about it while you mind is somewhere else, and you sometimes get miles away without even knowing it? Am I anywhere close to an analogy with that idea? If not, please tell me, as best you can, how your mind works when playing a difficult piece.
I hope I made some sense with the above, but I am very interested in the learning process, and if there is something I can do to "speed up" the process that I might not be doing now. I do practice several times per day until my embouchure gives out.
CarlT
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-07-30 00:14
I am no expert either, but i think its a matter of recognizing patterns rather than individual notes that allows someone to look far ahead in the music. If you can see the pattern coming up and you have that pattern under your fingers, you can then look ahead to the next measure or measures.
learning scales will help you recognize patterns.
experts correct me if i am not giving right information.
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2008-07-30 01:07
janlynn, thanks. Now that you mention it, I think I also read that somewhere.
So it might make sense then to learn the various patterns... scales, arpeggios, etc., and then if something different comes up (that one has not practiced for example), then those measures could be dealt with by good practice. Am I right on that?
I understand, I think, that in order to get better at playing, we all must work on scales and the like, but I didn't quite know how that actually worked. I guess it is ingrained in you to a point that you don't even have to think about it...at least not so much consciously??? I suppose it's not all that necessary that we know exactly how the mind/body adapts to playing so long as it happens, but it is very interesting to think about. It's almost like testing yourself to see how much you actually can progress.
Still hoping some pros and/or teachers will comment on the learning process.
CarlT
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Author: sfalexi
Date: 2008-07-30 02:54
Although, IMHO, there ARE some pieces of music where there really ISN'T enough of a pattern that you can look ahead much. In those pieces of music, the way to learn a 'patternless' phrase is simply to read it note by note, slowly, and work up to faster and faster tempos.
(One piece I'm thinking of is the opening to martino's "Set for Clarinet")
Alexi
US Army Japan Band
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Author: davidsampson
Date: 2008-07-30 03:02
With regards to how far ahead I am thinking:
I am not sure how to teach someone how to do this, its just something I do by nature. When I learn the music in rehearsal/practice, I essentially memorize the measures. When I play the piece through, I basically look at each measure as I go to remind me what is in that measure, and then play it from my head. Sadly its not memorized enough for me to be able to play completely from memory, unless we are talking about marching music. Does anyone else do something like that, who could explain it better?
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2008-07-30 18:12
David, that is amazing to me to be able to memorize the measures, only having to look at the music to be reminded of what's in that measure.
Of course, a beginner like me, one would be fascinated by this, so if this is the norm, I have a long way to go. Guess I'll just enjoy the ride and work on my scales, arpeggios, 3rds, 5ths, etc. and let the rest take care of itself.
CarlT
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-07-30 18:41
Carl, I tell my young students that the fingers are the dogs and the brain is the master. For a beginner, the fingers are learning to do things they haven't done before. The brain makes them learn and obey. Once they learn a routine (a certain passage, patterns, scales, arppegios, etc.) they won't forget.
I'm proud of you for picking up the clarinet at this phase in your life. Good for you!
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Author: hans
Date: 2008-07-30 22:58
In one of Artie Shaw's books he mentioned being able to read six bars ahead.
It would be interesting to conduct a poll and find out how far ahead everyone reads...............
Hans
PS... on second thought, maybe he wasn't talking about bars of music :-)
Post Edited (2008-07-31 00:23)
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Author: Alfred
Date: 2008-07-31 07:05
I do what David does.
When practicing Mozart's Concerto, I realized that after working on the piece, I essentially memorized the measures, and used the music as a reference. Basically it's remembering the patterns. For instance, when I play a sixteenth/thirty-second/ run, I usually just think about "feeling" all of my fingers hit the keys so that every note speaks, while simeltaneously scanning ahead with my eyes. I see every note, but I don't have to consciously pick them out; I've been conditioned to do so.
Sorry if that wasn't clear.
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2008-07-31 18:45
Yes, Alfred, you made it clear. I believe I understand better now why one must practice scales, arpeggios, and the like. I just didn't see how it would be possible to actually, one by one, play 16ths and 32nds by note reading. What you and David say makes much sense.
Now if I can just get past the three scales I can do fairly well (C, F and G majors, 2 octaves each) and move on. This must be why it takes years to become even close to becoming "good" on a clarinet unless you're a natural born player, and I bet even they have some hard work to do.
CarlT
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Author: autumnsilence
Date: 2008-08-03 05:37
I agree that it is much different from person to person, but also by how advanced/comfortable you are with the instrument and how much you 'understand' it in a sense. When i first learn a new instrument, when i play my mind feels a little confused or 'cluttered' i guess because when trying to play a extremely simple passage i have to stop and think about the individual finger placements of each note and it gets a little frustrating at first. But once you get comfortable with it, it becomes second nature. Like after about a year or two maybe (dont remember when it happened) but I can glance at a note and immediately without even thinking about it i know the name and fingerings for the note. (although i would like to be able to hear the pitch of the note befoe i play it..) after that harder passages become easier once you get used to changing between fingerings at a faster pace and without thinking much about it.. put in simple words, depending on what im playing, i usualy think about trying to be expressive and where and how i can do it, or i am simultaniously listening to the rest of the band and all the individual melodies and harmonies amongst the mix. When i am doing a very difficult passage, im thinking about the note pattern while im doing it or a little bit ahead. Mostly after playing it once or twice i get absorbed in the music and am focusing on the whole thing instead of only my individual part.
dont know if that makes sense but thats the only way i can explain it.
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