 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-07-26 16:08
A clarinet professor in our area sings the praises of this man and his work. Other professors I've been in contact with either have no comment or don't want to comment.
Tom Ridenour's website looks very convincing but I'd like to hear from those of you who know his clarinets on a professional level.
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Author: feadog79
Date: 2008-07-26 16:39
After playing Buffet R13 for all of my serious playing so far in my life, I purchased a Lyrique Custom from Tom this past fall. I liked it so much I ended up selling the Buffet (I couldn't afford to keep both, anyways). The Lyrique has a tone that seems sweeter to me, and I feel I'm capable of playing with just as much volume as I could with the Buffet. The ease of response across all registers surpassed that of my Buffet; larger intervals are easier, and the upper register especially sort of "sings." The keywork has been durable and functions perfectly well, although it is NOT finished as well as most other clarinets. This just means that, when looking closely at the keywork, it doesn't look as pretty as other brands. It is, however, well-designed and perfectly functional. The intonation of the instrument is the best I've played. I am currently helping a student of mine purchase a new clarinet, and she wants to try many different brands before making her final choice. I've checked many with a tuner, and so far, none are as in tune as my Lyrique Custom.
I've heard some complain about the thumbrest being uncomfortable. Personally, I've not had a problem, but this could be easily changed if you don't like it. I actually don't like the "ergonomic" register key, but it may be because of my thumb size. It seems that I can bump the key a little too easily. I thought I could get used to it, but I think I need to have Tom send me a standard register key to replace it with. I just tried to play the 2nd movement of the Saint-Saens sonata (with the 12th jumps...) and I had a bit of trouble because of the register key!
Sherman Friedland has very eloquently shared his experiences with Mr. Ridenour's instruments on this board...maybe search the archives and look for his comments.
JW
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Author: LonDear
Date: 2008-07-26 16:57
I played nothing but Selmers for 17 years, then found an amazing Yamaha CX 15 years ago and made it my primary horn, with an R13 as a backup. About 16 months ago I purchased a Ridenour A as well as a C. I didn't think anything could beat my trusty Yamaha Bb, but after a year of playing the A and C Lyriques, I had to try a Bb. I haven't even had an urge to go back. I did a ceremonious cleaning and oiling of my good old friend, the Yamaha, and put it in storage. My Eb is still a wood pro Yamaha, but I'm trying to get Tom to make an Eb. The new basses are indescribable - you just have to play it to believe it.
Another side benefit seems to be durability. I work in pits and close chamber settings where you have to juggle multiple instruments in cramped quarters. I know I had to take the Yahama in for repair at least every two years because it got knocked over or dropped. The Lyrique Bb took a tumble recently without even a scratch.
The only thing that I miss is the silver plating. Maybe someday I'll have them gold-plated.
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Author: feadog79
Date: 2008-07-26 18:09
I don't think I would WANT Ridenour's clarinet in wood. Better finish to the keys, yes, but I like the rubber material.
JW
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-07-26 23:34
I just got my Lyrique back from Tom. It is as I have said many times in the past, the best clarinet I have played and part of the reason is the material, hard rubber, which is much sweeeter responding and even than is wood. Of course, he is a genius in the scale and response of the horn itself. (He is determining the price of the patina-plating which he says is longer lasting and prettier than silver). I mean genius literally. I found that my clarion A was a bit less in timbre than the notes around it. He fixed it perfectly. The guy can hear, really hear and he has the ability to carry out the machinations of his ear. I have been playing his clarinets for several years, first the Allora, then the Arioso and now the Lyrique. I just got a lovely letter from a player to whom I recommended a used TR147. He was effusive in his praise for the horn for which he paid 99.00 (used).
Sherman Friedland
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2008-07-27 04:32
"First the Allora, then the Arioso and now the Lyrique."
Is this because they don't last? Or because he keeps coming out with improvements? If the latter, are the improvements fixes for problems the earlier models had? And are they sufficient improvements to render the earlier models obsolete? The amount spent for three of Tom's instruments (new) would just about buy a new top-of-the-line Yamaha. How can someone who is about to buy one of his clarinets tell whether the current model is the one to buy?
Now, just to let you know where I'm coming from, I can easily believe that a well-made rubber clarinet can sound as good as a wooden clarinet. But I also believe that a well-made wooden clarinet can sound as good as a rubber one. I wanted to try Ridenour clarinets at Clarinetfest but, every time I was in the room where he had his booth, he was busy with other folks trying his instruments and, since I did not intend to buy, I didn't want to interrupt his interaction with people who may have been potential paying customers. So I still haven't tried his clarinets.
His design skills are well-documented. My concerns with his instruments are exactly the point I raised at the beginning of this post -- his instruments don't have a very long history. And he has a history of abandoning his designs. Couple this with the fact that the instruments are made in China with no apparent direct supervision from him and I find them a risky investment. If one needs replacement parts ten years from now, will they be available? Of course this may be a problem with any of the manufacturers but the major ones have been around for a long time and they don't rely on one key individual for their survival. (And OK, I'll admit it. The fact that I've never seen a rubber clarinet over 10-15 years old that hadn't turned brown or green and didn't stink causes me some concern.)
But one advantage rubber clarinets should definitely have over wooden ones is the ability to bend notes. ![[grin]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie5.gif)
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-07-27 12:50
Frankly, I really don't know how kind your regards are, but let me explain your interpretation of my comments because I neglect toed explain that I try clarinets by the bushel basket. I am an inveterate clarinet-tryer.You may catagorize those comments as well if you wish, however I choose to interpret them as being always curious about the new and hopefully different.
I have never ever had a hard rubber clarinet stink or turn color or decay in any way.
Perhaps you will say that I didn't have any that long, and you may be right, but one I know is correct sir, and that is that you have as much a prejudice against instruments of hard rubber as I do for them, OK?
There is no hard rubber horn that doesn't sound better than any wooden horn. (My word, what will you do with that?!) As far back as Anthony Baines rather lovely book, "Woodwind instruments and their history", he mentioned the "sweeter quality of hard rubber".
Along with Ridenours expertise he has made the instrument really quite a phenomenon for exactly the reasons you use. Made in China, no control over the product (until it arrives here, you leave out, but thats OK.) Of course that statement reflects a prejudice, but thats OK .
The reasons I have tried so many is that I'm awed by their consistency. Really, you will find wide variations in this or that but I have found them to have a remarkable even quality and of course, the scale is better. Does that count for nothing? It is a better basic scale than any French clarinet has been my experience. My Lyrique is no better than my Arioso; I doubt if I could tell them apart, and some Alloras were better in certain ways. My A is an Allora. I bought it new for 595.00.(123 Music) It plays as well intune as did my Opus A.
This is my basic point and my "raison d'etre"" My heart is heavy when I see a student or a students father get a loan for several thousands of dollars paid back at 18% interest endlessly for a horn that may crack is not terribly intune. Most students will never get a job playing the clarinet or even a Music Ed. job. There is simply no room in the industry to support the number of starry-eyed students looking for a post secondary school education....and a job. In a lifetime of teaching I have had only a very few students truly gifted, and those are the only ones who have a prayer, if that. After they learn all of the multitude of things they need to know, they then must confront the business, and most of them can't get close to that confrontation successfully.
Back to hard rubber, the only thing that turned green was a mouthpiece that I used at Hampton Beach NH one summer, payng in a little concertband three hour concerts per day on the beach, (a segregated beach at that). My mouthpiece turned green and I was fired for swabbing out my clarinet too much.
True. There is a business out there.
Finally,you mentioned that you have never tried a clarinet of hard rubber. Please do.Try one for a week and then go back to your wooden instrument.
I couldn't and I have played wooden French clarinets for 50 years.
Sherman Friedland
Post Edited (2008-07-27 12:52)
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Author: feadog79
Date: 2008-07-27 13:40
I think that Mr. Ridenour dropped the Allora and Arioso name because those names were sold to a different company. I don't want to say any more than that, because I'm afraid I'd be giving incorrect information. The best thing would be to contact Tom Ridenour himself, if you're curious. Based on my correspondence with him, he'd be more than willing to answer absolutely any question you have. I THINK he went with the "Lyrique" name after selling the names of Allora and Arioso. PLEASE someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I do think there were design improvements along the way; I only have experience with the Arioso and the Lyrique. I thought the Lyrique had better "placement" of the keys, if you will...they are just more comfortable to play. Aside from that, my Lyrique was a little different design. I have the "custom" model, which has a different bore design.
I don't believe the location of manufacture to be an issue; while the instruments are made in China, they all go through Tom before they're sold. They aren't the only high-quality instruments manufactured in China, either. I think Jack raises a valid concern, though...what will I do with my instrument in 20 years if I need a key replaced, or something like that? I'm still on the younger side, so I haven't had a single instrument for that many years. I don't know from experience how worried I should be about that, but it's something to think about.
As for design changing...other companies do it, too. R13 is no longer the best that Buffet makes; they clearly put more care nowadays into their Toscas, etc. See the current thread about "wood quality in newer R13's".
I'm just glad that Tom seems to be continually making his instruments better, not the other way around!
JW
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-07-27 15:57
Old stuff, but here goes.. I have owned : the original TR147- it has side- by- side trill keys. A slightly later model with in-line trill keys. Later yet model with reinforced crowsfoot; and finally two Ariosos. Acoustically, they are quite similar and good , so much so I sold my three Concertos. I like the even blowing of all, but my favorite one is the newest TR147. I paid $55 for it. I now have cork and white kid pads on all. Are they professional clarinets? I defer to Sherman and others since I am an amateur. As always, try before buy.
richard smith
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Author: RLSchwebel
Date: 2008-07-27 16:10
Ironic...
This is were everybody takes the moral high ground on products made in China. Tom test everyone of his instruments and they are phenomenal. You couldn't pray to get better service and knowledge from any instrument maker in the world.
Now run off to Walmart and buy your crap for $1.99 and feel good about what you've done to the American Economy.
~robt
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Author: MichaelR
Date: 2008-07-27 16:53
I'm not a pro. But my teacher is. When I was discussing getting a TR147 from the Ohio seller on the auction site that shall not be named she said "Yes you should. You don't want to use your nice wood clarinet in those community band outdoor concerts." I looked at her blankly and said, "This? This isn't wood. It's hard rubber."
She was asserting my Lyrique was too nice to risk playing at the Farmer's Market and in the city park. She had forgotten that it was hard rubber.
Looks like my work to improve my tone is paying off.
--
Michael of Portland, OR
Be Appropriate and Follow Your Curiosity
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-07-27 18:11
I’ve always said “You get what you pay for” but since I’ve never played any of Tom’s clarinets I can’t give an opinion. I have read some posts that described mechanical problems with some but then there are posts that praise them very highly. Maybe some day I’ll be able to try one, I am curious and I know he is a master craftsman. Does anyone know of a major symphony player in the USA that plays one in their orchestra? I mean major orchestra, one of the top twenty – twenty five. If so I’d like to contact them about it because a clarinet player in one of those orchestra’s has to be able to play in tune, that’s a major concern. Tone defers, good intonation does not. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 Little Mozart
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-07-27 19:32
The tuning of the Ridenour clarinet is the one incontravertible issue. I'm very well aware that tuning in an orchestra is paramount, however I was not aware that it had to be a top 20 orchestra. You mean it is OK if it is the 22nd or 23rd? The American Orchestra is not the criterion of intonation.My own judgement would be any ensemble of professional string players and a clarinetist playing one of these Ridenour instruments. I have been in such a situation several times and the clarinet is very well accepted by the pitch standards set. And the timbre of this instrument is a much more amenable blend than were my wooden horns .
One thing needs to be mentioned and that is that these particular instruments are new on the stage of this industry, at least instruments of this refinement. I place it with the quality of the Opus clarinet as far as pitch and tuning.
Sherman Friedland
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-07-27 20:24
The difference is that an orchestra does the hiring and firing. Yes you are exposed in a quartet, but your buddy hired you, and there's no committee. Completely different pressure situation.
String quartet is low budget. You can play on an instrument which doesn't project all that well in a chamber group a lot easier than in a pro orchestra.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-07-27 20:27
I would add though that I would bet that they play well in tune, but projection, and depth of tone would be my concern.
A trial of several days would be needed, not just a quick play as it seems that a bit of adjustment for the material difference would be needed. I would want high quality keys even if it cost twice what it does. Pro players don't look for lowest price, they look for best performance.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
Post Edited (2008-07-27 22:08)
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-07-28 02:23
That may be the case, David. It also may be a committee that hires you to play the chamber engagement, something which has been the case many times. Never a "buddy". Perish the thought. Do you know what the Budapest got, or the Jiulliard for a performance. I do. Not "small budget".
Sherman Friedland
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-07-28 02:32
Well, there are "pro"players and there are "pro" players. One would think that at the very least you would try one of these. I mention at least a week. If you do with the usual prejudice, a combination of Chinese and French and you will stick to your sharp throat, your flat low e and your croaky Bb. Get the gig and then worry about the projection. This is not a "price" thing. And I beg your pardon."Pro"
players look for the price more than anybody else I have ever seen. Also they don't "look"for the best performance. I would hope they listen for it.
Sherman Friedland
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-07-28 02:47
Not the ones that I know Sherman. The ones that I know can and do pay for quality. I'm not referring to something wasteful such as the Elite, but spending $3000 on an instrument isn't even a thought asto price for someone with a pro job.
And if the instrument doesn't project, that job won't be gotten in the first place.
Yes the Juilliard Quartet has a budget, the Wasatoscollou Quartet doesn't.......
How many touring players are playing em??
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-07-28 04:59
I just had the chance to play the Ridenour 147 today at the tba convention. I thought for the price and not being "pro" models, they sounded alright. For me, they were to resistant, but mabey a different mp would change that. The keywork was nice. The keywork ever crossed my mind until the sales person asked me what i thought of it. It was so similar to the R13 keywork...maybe modeled after? The only difference was the left pinky Db/Gb. it was lower than he R13 wich required more finger movement to get to it.
overall, if i had to buy a student model, non-wooden clarinet, this would be the one.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2008-07-28 19:07
The Lyrique is indeed a wonderful instrument. I have owned one and highly recommend them and Tom Ridenour. A prince of a guy to work with. I recommend the professional model that he hand-selects and sets up for you.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-08-06 03:35
I just wanted to relay my experiences with the Ridenour Professional A that I just purchased. It is a bit long, sorry. When I first got it, I was not sold on it, but after playing it for several days and comparing it with my Festival, I decided to keep it. I sent it back to Tom for some tweaking. There were some slight tuning problems (mind you, these problems were still less than on my Buffet), but keep in mind that I am in Japan (A=442) and I use mouthpieces of my own make. It is totally understandable that some notes could need some adjustment.
I just got it back last week from adjustment.
This clarinet has very good tuning and response throughout the entire range. Soft and loud passages respond very easily. Articulation is much easier with this clarinet than with the "A" that I this is replacing.
The big question people ask is "Does it sound like wood?" I don't know what wood "sounds like", but it definitely sounds like a clarinet. Regardless of the material, the bore design is very different from my Buffets. So to just say that wood or hard rubber affect the tone is unfair because there are many other factors involved. Even though the bore is different from my Buffet, I still use the same mouthpiece.
I read from some that the keywork is very poor. I have not found ANY problems with the keywork. Here is a portion of a letter sent to Tom regarding an aspect of the keywork- "When it arrived I was having horrible trouble playing it and many notes were very stuffy, though. After examination, I found that the F/C key and the F#/C# key had been bent a bit. The F/C key was very close to the hole and there was significant lost motion in the crow’s foot- however the long E/B responded well. I assume the damage was in transit.
As I was adjusting this problem I was very happy to find that the keys were not at all easy to bend. Clearly, the metal that is used on these clarinets is well selected. I expect that this instrument will maintain regulation very well over time."
The springs Tom uses are high quality and the finishing on the flat springs is better than many other makers- Buffet and Wurlitzer included.
When I got it back this second time, I still did some tweaking. In addition to the above mentioned bent key, I spent about 5 minutes adjusting a few screws that were not in all the way. All in all, I spent less than 1 hour "fixing" it. Many new clarinets need "set-up" witch can take several hours.
Regardless of the price, I would recommend this clarinet to anyone. It works "out of the box", which is more I can say for some clarinets.
Are there any bad points? Yes.
1. I did not like the ergonomic register key. Tom changed it to a normal one.
2. There is no left hand Eb key.
Also, I have heard that the thumbrest is very uncomfortable. Personally, I use a Kooiman thumbrest on every clarinet I play, so I really can't comment on it- for me, all normal thumbrests are painful.
I plan to get a matching Bb soon!
Post Edited (2008-08-06 03:52)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2008-08-06 17:07
The thumbrest mentioned above is a standard one like the Buffet clarinets have, but if you ask him for the ergonomic one he'll put it on. It just slips over the standard thumbrest and is easily taken off. I didn't like it either. But I just use a Tom Thumb rubber thumb saver over the standard thumb rest and it is great.
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Author: Sylvain
Date: 2008-08-06 17:18
Claire:
If you are considering buying an instrument then just try one from him. He gives you decent return policy and if you don't like it you've lost a little bit of shipping money. I'd rather lose a little bit of money on shipping than miss the opportunity to find the perfect clarinet for myself at 1/3 of the price of most other makers.
There is enough support for his clarinets to warrant a trial, then *you* can figure out if it is a good instrument for *you*.
--
Sylvain Bouix <sbouix@gmail.com>
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