 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2008-07-27 02:26
I'm an adult beginner, and I recently let my plastic rental go back and purchased a Selmer Signet Special, circa early 60's. My teacher had highly recommended it because the best clarinet repairman in the area had it for sale and had just given it a complete new padding, replaced springs as required, etc. My teacher played it and liked it.
Now that I'm a bit further along with my playing (4 months now), I have been going up and down C, F, and G scales (Chalumeau and Clarion...not Altissimo yet), along with watching the tuner, and the tone is varying all over the place. Any given note will be rather consistent each time I play it, but from one note to another will be several cents off. The extreme occurs at B and C above the staff (highest clarion notes). these are 25 to 40 cents sharp. These are exceptional, and I can do alternate fingering and get them to within 2 or 3 cents sharp. I do this test when my embouchure is not so tired to be fair.
Okay, with all that said, is this considered "normal" for some so-called intermediate clarinets (Signet Specials usually get pretty good reviews on the BB I believe)? The sound is pretty good, especially in chalumeau, although I believe as time goes by, and I improve, the tones will sound better, even in the higher registers.
Still, I am somewhat disappointed that my teacher steered me to a clarinet that IMO doesn't have good tuning qualities. I almost bought Ridenour's custom Lyrique, but my teacher highly advised me to get the Signet Special.
If this is not too unusual (and you all please tell me if it is, or not), I can still learn on this one and get a better one once I have played for a year, or so I suppose. I'm a retired engineer, and a lot of you know how persnippity we can be. Life is not good if things are not perfect you know!!!
FWIW, I play on a Fobes Debut mp, with #3 VD V-12 reeds.
(I edited the above mp, as I had spelled it wrong).
CarlT
Post Edited (2008-07-27 03:28)
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2008-07-27 11:55
I have been playing a 1955 or so Signet Special for over 50 years. I also have played in a Wind Symphony where the Concert mistress played a 1960 or so Signet Special. We were standmates so I could hear her intonation. Both of our instruments had essentially the same intonation characteristics even though I used a Vandoren M15 mouthpiece and she used a Portnoy BP02.
Yes, It is normal for the high clarion notes to be sharp. During rapid runs you lip them lower, during slower playing use alternate fingerings. You will probably discover that the lowest Chalumeau notes are flat. You learn to lip them up. There are other notes that are not spot on, but the ones that have been mentioned are the farthest out.
The reason to practice with a tuner is to learn how to correct tuning tendencies. Once you understand where the problem areas are you can be prepared to correct them on the fly.
I don't have as much experience with other Brands or more modern instruments, but I haven't run across any yet that play every note perfectly in tune just by blowing. I know ther are other instruments out there that are supposed to be better, but I've learned to adjust.
The most important aspect of intonation is to be able to adjust on the fly to what the rest of the group is doing. Even if you had a perfectly tuned instrument you would still have to adjust to the rest of the group. You don't need to be "right" you need to be "in tune". Eventually you will learn tuning subtleties such as softer notes playing sharper, and louder notes playing flatter.
PS. I am also a retired (disabled in 2002) engineer, and the Wind Symphony experience I've mentioned was in 2003. Although most clarinetists in the Wind Symphony were playing R-13s or E-11s, the concert mistress was the "best" player in the 12 member section on her 40+ year old signet special.
There were quite a few clarinetists who sounded pretty good pre 1955 when Robert Caree solved some of the intonation problems. Bonade, Portnoy, Artie Shaw come to mind, and there were many others.
Post Edited (2008-07-27 13:22)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-07-27 12:45
I assume you didn't pay much over around $250 for it.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Tony Beck
Date: 2008-07-27 12:56
Carl, as an engineer you'll enjoy the article on clarinet acoustics posted at; http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/clarinetacoustics.html. You'll also get a good understanding of the design compromises that cause certain notes to be inherently hard (actually almost impossible) to tune on a clarinet. It's part of the design compromises, for instance having only one register key.
I too am an engineer and played a Selmer Signet (Special) of 1960s vintage in high school and college. It's a good horn, that my daughter now plays in school. Different mouthpieces and barrels will change the tuning characteristics, but chances are there will still be good and bad notes. Do a search through the archives on Buffet R-13s, which are THE professional horn in the US. There are plenty of folks complaining about intonation issues with them.
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Author: CarlT
Date: 2008-07-27 14:23
Man, I go to bed late last night with no responses to my post, and I get up this morning with three. Is the BB good, or what!
John, you've made me feel much better about my Signet Special. I'll just deal with it for awhile anyway. As I said, the sound is much better than my rental was, even to my untrained ears.
BobD said, "I assume you didn't pay much over around $250 for it."
Try doubling that. Here are my reasons, Bob. I bought it from the best repairman in my region of the country (southeastern Tennessee). At least two major colleges in the area use him and praise his work. I knew I could go to EBay and buy one for around $250, but then I might have to have work done on it, and as said, I'd have to take it to this guy anyway. So my thoughts were to go ahead and pay a premium and get it from him. I even told his as I was writing the check that I knew I was paying at least $100-$150 more than market, but that I was also buying into his good will. He didn't disagree with that. He added that he did about $225 worth of work to the clarinet anyway. BTW I did get him down $150 from his original price. Yes, I probably got beat, but the rental was costing me $30 per month, and I either had to buy his or take a chance on some much more costly clarinets, so I don't feel too bad about the deal, especially now that I know that intonation problems are not unique to my Signet Special.
Tony, you, too, have made me feel much better about my Special and intonation problems in general. I will read your referenced article very soon, and thanks for the link.
CarlT
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