 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-07-26 21:56
Was mentioned in the rates thread so am starting it.
I am pretty loose business wise as my philosophy is that I want students and their parents to want to be at lessons, not force them.
And none of my students take advantage of that.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: allencole
Date: 2008-07-27 21:17
I started with a monthly system, similar to most music stores. But too many folks wanted to miss lessons without paying, and it was too hard to track. I adopted another teacher's policies, and it has greated simplified life.
2 semesters (fall & spring) of 15-17 weeks each, payable in advance. Money is in hand, financial records can be settled, and no collections to be made. All you have to do for the rest of the semester is deliver service. Each semester has one extra lesson at no charge, designated the 'student make-up day.' It's there to make up for a student absence, or as a bonus for perfect attendance. Outside of that, I don't guarantee make-ups, but always attempt to do so anyway. It generates a lot of customer goodwill and the kids need it anyway.
I usually schedule one or two 'snow days' in case I have a performance, or there's a problem with the lesson venue. This means that I can miss a lesson or two and still give the student a makeup at his/her normal day and time.
Summer is an 11-week session, with more flexible lesson scheduling. Even if they have a lot of time off, it's usually worth it to keep the student from stagnating.
With these terms, I pretty easily filter out anyone who is looking for an escape hatch. For anyone on the fence, I'll offer a free initial lesson. After that, it's put up or shut up. The main advantages:
1 - it filters out the window-shoppers, and gives me a substantial window in which to really reach the student
2 - it simplifies the books
3 - It avoids problems with collections, or attempts to change the deal. This makes for particularly pleasant relations with parents, and much less life-force sucked out of me by wheeler-dealers.
4 - Each semester, it gives me an fairly accurate picture of whether I can afford to keep doing it.
I generally sell half-hour lessons, and don't push full-hour ones. Several reasons for this:
1 - Most students in my area aren't that serious and a half-hour lesson is usually sufficient to get them to a better place--or for them to see that they're really not working at a level appropriate for private lessons
2 - I'm not in a position to discount hour lessons, and the costs can be prohibitive to a family budget. Plus the loss of one student at these rates is a serious loss. It makes better business sense to have more students, and at a less oppressive price. (besides I need a good number of students to meet future goals of involving them in well-matched small groups, etc.)
3 - Half-hour lessons are producing competitive results for most students in this area. It's hard to justify something longer unless the student is really serious about repertoire and/or jazz improv. (is learning concertos, transcribing solos, etc.)
Disadvantages:
1 - Sometimes I need 5 more minutes to settle a student into the coming week's material. From time to time, I think about doing 45-minute lessons.
2 - A bigger commitment is a bigger decision. It's not unusual to have someone call back a month or two after the initial discussion. Sometimes, they just needed the time to evaluate their commitment (which is fine with me). And sometimes they've been comparison-shopping or have tried another teacher. Still not a problem, but it doesn't instantly fill the slots the way a music store would like to see. I have to make up for this with retention.
3 - You've really got to be disciplined with the money coming in. Every once in a while, I run out of makeups for my own performances, and have to refund some students for a lesson or two.
The final reason that I like this system is that it gives me several months to show what I can do with the student. A commitment of only one month can often make a decision time available just as novelty is wearing off and real work is beginning--and can seriously hurt a carefully-built reputation if a lazy student wants to blame me for his/her problems. Having the chance to ride the cycle and get some real results almost guarantees retention.
Allen Cole
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-07-27 22:36
>too many folks wanted to miss lessons without paying, and it was too hard to track.
exactly. my system is almost exactly what allen posted above. very well written post.
i have a '2 makeups per year' rule, i keep one day a week open and hold makeups once every month or so.
david - i take it seriously too, and my older students know the studio rules. but i had to put it into writing , mostly for the new students (for their parents mostly). i've seen too many weird things to keep going without formal rules - that could be a totally separate thread.
i do allow students to use a credit card to pay the semester fee. that makes my accounting job even easier.
i insist on payment up front - i've learned not to let new students get more than a week or 2 behind without paying the tuition, or i'll terminate lessons. before I did that, i always had a few trying to take advantage of me. a few parents will pay all the bills except the private teacher - we seem to be last on their priority list. they don't seem to understand this IS a business. they can't walk out of a store with merchandise without paying, this shouldn't be any different.
that 'simplify the books' comment is a big one - i used to process 500+ checks a year - that takes way too much time.
i do 45 minutes in the summer - at a higher cost , that allows much more time for the better students. during the school year, one or 2 get longer lessons, most 30.
i've cut the number of lessons i teach per semester to handle the problem of makeup lessons due to conflicts. cuts my income a bit, but between symphony conflicts, and a huge number of conflicts the kids have at the schools, i had to put in some limits and controls.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: allencole
Date: 2008-07-28 03:15
Paul, I think that the 2-makeup-per-year thing is pretty intriguing, and I see a lot of guitar teachers who work on a monthly basis doing it.
One local woodwind studio has the year divided into quarters and each student gets 39 lessons total. But the studio is open 50 weeks per year, so the students & parents decided while 11 weeks they'll be off. This is a mom-and-pop studio, though, and the two people may be filling in for each other as needed.
To me, one big question is the caliber of student. I have enough beginners and folks in need of basic development that I have to make up anything I can. If most of my kids were higher end, I would probably prefer your policy.
David, I'm thinking that most of your students are fairly serious to begin with. Would that be correct?
Allen Cole
Post Edited (2008-07-28 03:17)
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2008-07-28 04:26
Interesting posts, thanks.
I teach only adults now, not much time in my schedule for students.
I see 2-5 serious musicians a week, time permitting.
My fee is $2 a minute, talk or play, your choice. It's NYC, so my fees are reasonable and I get paid after each session, always.
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-07-28 05:24
Just a question, and I am just being general, not asking for specific answers at all.
You can e-mail me responses.
Sorry to piggyback of this thread, but i have always been curious...
For those of you who have a steady, serious studio, is the income substantial? i know it won't support someone, but does it "pay the bills" so to speak? being able to "pay the bills" and put food on the table as a musician is becoming harder. just wondering.
thanks.
orig. subject...
I don't feel that a studio run completely like a business is the best way to do it. I think you have to be able to make a comfortable connection with the students in order for them to learn. Strict rules and policies tend to scare people away. On the other hand, you don't want to be too laxed about it because students will begin to take advantage of you which is one, not good for business, and two, not good for the student's development.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-07-28 13:39
When I was teaching lessons at both schools and at home (high number of students) I was making what a major orchestral position would pay. Was a lot more than the top Military Bands pay. Lesson teaching, not classroom teaching at all. I stopped teaching at schools in 1999 as had done that for 15 years and it was enough... Got into the promotion, producing stuff then.
Allen, I've got quite a variety of students from pretty serious (2 who were the only students in either of their High Schools to make All State PA. Band, one 1st chair, the other a 10th grader 1st Section) to the not so serious but they all really enjoy playing, and they all do practice.
Common sense is the key for me to have a very successful studio. I've done the written policy thing before and it's easy to loose a student if the rules come into play. Maybe that's the student that I want to loose? They pay me each lesson or monthly, and if they forget it one week and offer to mail me the check I almost always say to just bring it next week (never been burned with that).
Students don't want to be in a business relationship, they want to be in a mentoring relationship.
I have them arrive 5 minutes early to assemble their instrument. That way they aren't getting shorted on their lesson time while assembling it.
My wife wants me to charge for less than 24 hours notice, but I almost never do - unless somebody is trying to cancel for not practicing. I then encourage them to come as we work hard on sight-reading for that lesson. I hold sight reading as a very important skill to hone and it makes a big difference when they try out for regionals, etc.
I like the 2 makeup a year thing, but would wonder if it discourages students parents for re-signing up again?
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-07-28 15:08
"From time to time, I think about doing 45-minute lessons."
Heard that, Allen.
In terms of teenage students (the ones who don't live and breathe clarinet), I think that half an hour is a tight fit and an hour is too long. If I had my students arrive five minutes early to set up, though, I could see getting more mileage out of a half-hour lesson.
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-07-28 18:17
I modify my rules occassionally based on the student. The first chair all state kid, she can have as long a lesson as she wants. If she forgets a check, thats ok, after all these years, I know she's good for it.
The beginners taught at the schools need to adhere to the studio policies. I've had too many problems with parents signing up their kids for lessons, then 3,4 weeks later I haven't been paid. Then they drop out / transfer to another school / move /. etc., and I never do see a check - after that happened 5,6 times, I put in the 'pay in advance' rule.
I've had students go on vacation for a week - during the school year - skipping school. I drive up to a school, and the kids not there - the next week they don't want to pay me for the lesson the day they were out of town.... Hm, they take a vacation, they expect me to take one too.... Er, no, wrong, it doesn't work that way..
Some of them lie - 'do you have a check for me today' student: 'i forgot it , its on the kitchen table, I'll bring it next week'. Then next week - guess what date is on the check - its todays date, not a week old - someone's parent is teaching the kid to lie for them... That happens a few times, then I add in another studio rule as a reaction.
Makeup lessons - I have 60 students - if i didn't limit the makeups, I'd be in perpetual makeup mode. Some of them are perpetually ill, or missing due to school conflicts, so I put those rules in place. They are enforced strictly for beginners, and less so the longer the student has been with the studio.
The really good ones - they get extra free lessons. The ones that don't practice - if they don't show up for a lesson - (shrugs) - so what - I've been paid. The serious kids - I'll bend over backwards helping.
most of those problems are rare - but happen often enough to prompt me to have some formal studio rules in place. When my studio was small, I had no rules. Now I have a large waiting list - so I can affort to have the rules in place.
45 minute lessons - I have 3 or 4 kids who come to my house for lessons, they work very hard , so get longer lessons. But that is not the norm during the school year.
hth
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
Post Edited (2008-07-28 18:18)
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2008-07-28 21:20
I admit that I haven't read the whole thread, so if I'm being redundant, I apologize.
Human nature what it is, if you don't require adequate payment for lessons, and if you don't expect your students to live up to certain rules and requirements, your students won't value lessons.
Here's an example: As a counselor, I see both paying clients and those who are fully subsidized by government agencies.
The diagnoses for my clients in the past three years have generally been the same as a set for both groups for those years, despite wide variations in income and other such demographics.
Cancellation and no-show rates for those clients who have gone beyond the assessment stage (usually one or two sessions) and who are wholly subsidized has been 54%.
Cancellation and no-show rates for those clients who pay either partial or full payment for services is about 17%.
When I taught music for free, the same thing happened.
Clearly, if a person doesn't value his or her own abilities and effort enough to charge a reasonable fee for services and demand that certain requirements are met, students (and parents) won't either.
Again, sorry if I've trodden old ground.
B.
Post Edited (2008-07-29 02:00)
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Author: clariniano
Date: 2008-07-29 22:36
(sorry, long post!)
So what if you had a serious student who wanted to study with you but can’t or won’t commit to 3-6 months of lessons at a time? I think it’s good to have various options available (I know my teachers did!), most of my students or parents pay for lessons on a monthly basis, (I like monthly payments too—I’d be tempted to spend the money immediately on a quarterly or semester payment!) though I have and have had students or their parents in the past pay for lessons on a twice-monthly basis (though even this I haven’t needed to offer this option for the last year or so), or, more rarely, 3 months at a time. (though a couple of my student’s families chose this option, both piano, one because the mom’s a realtor and tends to get paid in three month cycles, the other the parents of three piano students who like paying for things in fewer installments! The large payments every few months mean I can add or upgrade the equipment I use to teach students—like my boyfriend and I are buying a new piano in the fall!) I mostly teach 45 min lessons too, with ½ hour lessons reserved for very young piano students and I do have 5 students (all clarinet, though have had some piano students who did that too) who take hour long lessons (either because of the student’s level or the parents requested it.). Plus I perform too, and sometimes with recording work, (I just did one today!) musicals or orchestras I’ve had to miss at least a couple weeks’ worth of lessons. I know I’ve been through times when I could not pay for more than 2 lessons at a time, and I still wouldn’t pay for 3-6 months worth of lessons at once. There will always be students who are paying for lessons themselves through a low paying job—my own parents said when I was in high school if I wanted lessons I would have to pay for them myself. Which I finally could do the summer after my first year of university)
However, to increase student commitment, I do a $125 materials fee per student (for clarinet students, for piano students this fee is $80—mainly because of the costs of reeds and a good quality mouthpiece!), I purchase student’s materials, because a lot of the students parents don’t have the time to pick it up themselves, don’t know what to get, and I usually go to the music store at least once every other week, though normally I go about once a week, to pick up my own music anyway and to browse any new selections.) I usually teach 10-15 students, though this year I will definitely be at my maximum I feel I have the energy for, which is 20, even though I really like around 15 students better—I need time for my own practicing (on clarinet and piano!) and performances. Plus some students always seem to need or want extra lessons no matter how carefully you plan the lessons. (though most are ready at least a couple of weeks in advance!) So far the materials fee has worked to increase the average length of time students study with me, one student I’ve taught for nearly 4 years, a number of students are at or approaching the 2 or 3 year mark. I may even increase my fees to at least $50/hour, maybe even $60, just so I can teach fewer students but make the same income. (and I know I will have a heavy teaching/performing/studying/audition/recording year starting in September!)Yet the more I increase my fees the more students I seem to get, and the quality of students tends to increase. My clarinet students tend to come from wealthier families anyway.
Half hour lessons for me go by incredibly fast (especially when you combine exams, auditions (for arts schools and high level groups) competitions, and recitals (I have a couple of students who I’m encouraging to do a solo recital) and I like to focus on the quality of the lesson experience. Of all the students doing extremely well at various types of performances, not one of the really good students was only taking a ½ hour lesson! The ½ hour lesson students often don’t seem to practice as much as the students who take longer lessons. (I’d read on some other music discussion boards that the less you give a student to practice, the less they will practice!)
Because I choose to teach a fairly limited number of students (and leave some times open for times students need or want to reschedule (or additional lessons), as well as my own performances and rehearsals), and know I am really good with students and families who want to achieve excellent results (some of you have seen my videos or know about the great things I’ve done with students in less than 10 years!) I rarely will consider students who say (or their parents say) don’t want their child doing exams occasionally, except in very rare circumstances—and I don’t accept them if they won’t do any type of performances. (there are several other reasons I won’t accept students or their families, though many of them only apply to piano students) Yes, I pick-and-choose my clients through interviewing (I have said no to several students and their families), I don’t have a lot of rules in my studio either, mainly because I screen for students and families that I think will make good clients! (I used to have a really obsessive-compulsive studio policy which covered almost any potential problem, but I learned good clients don’t really need one, and the ones that do need it don’t read it or don’t care! Hence the screening process. My own teachers didn’t really have a studio policy either. I don’t even teach adult students anymore. I don’t see how it’s possible to produce fine results with only ½ hour lessons.
A few final notes. For a few years I have offered a work-study option, students earn part of their lesson fees for helping me out with tasks related to teaching and performing, though I’ve only had a couple of students who took this option, but when I did have the help, things just ran so well! I also helped start a Canadian version of the Musiclink program that is quite established in the US. So, that means maybe music teachers could charge high fees, but also give the ones who can’t afford the full fee options like Musiclink or a work-study program! (I think the real earnings of private music teachers has actually gone down. I would also be happy to have a student's family clean my place and/or prepare a couple of meals a week in exchange for at least part of the lesson fee. And don't make excuses for not increasing your lesson fees too, our own costs go up just like everybody elses.
Meri
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Author: Nessie1
Date: 2008-07-30 11:17
I do agree very much about the policy of being careful which pupils (and, even more, parents!) you take on. There are those who will take advantage and then suggest that you're not a good teacher and. on the other hand, there are those who would not dream of doing so.
I once had a pupil whose parents constantly ignored my relatively simple and reasonable rule that, if a lesson was missed for a reason that could reasonably be foreseen 24 hours in advance, I expected 24 hours notice or I charged for the lesson. In other words, school trips, non-urgent doctors' appointments, parties etc. I should have been advised of but I would have been totally understanding if the child or parent were unexpectedly taken ill on the day of the lesson or, say, if there had been severe weather making travel to the lesson inadvisible. This pupil was also constantly late for lessons although I explained that I could not keep other pupils waiting and, at one point, we did change his regular lesson time to see whether this would help (it didn't!).
This parent then started to question my qualifications in clarinet teaching (which I think we had discussed when I first started teaching the child) and my effectiveness although the child had recently got distinction in an ABRSM exam, despite being far from hard-working or talented and having played for the exam on about the worst reed I have ever seen (which I had told him to replace prior to the exam!)
Needless to say, our relationship ended pretty much there and then.
I think it is true, as one or two other posters have mentioned, that some people see people like music teachers as a machine that can be tapped into when they feel like it rather than as people who do have a life as well. They may be prepared to arrange that life around teaching but they do expect to earn money in return. I was always quite happy to turn down other things I might have liked to do (such as playing for fun) because I had a commitment to teach at a particular time but, in exchange, I expected the courtesy of a brief period of notice if the pupil/parent was not going to take up the option of the lesson or I expected the money!
Put another way, people may be paying for your skill, knowledge, enthusiasm, dedication etc. but they are also paying for your time and, like anyone else, teachers only have 24 hours in the day!
Ultimately, as others have said, with a pupil who is keen and serious, I'm sure many of us would "go the extra mile" to provide extra support such as arranging groups to play in, taking people to relevant events at cost, helping them to find accompanists etc. but, as touched on by another poster, with the less serious and commited, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
Concerning the issue of fees, I agree totally that a reasonable increase, say, no more than once a year is quite justifiable.
I am sorry if this sounds too much like a rant, many pupils and parents I have known have been wonderful, but I'm sure it will ring true to many of those reading this thread.
Vanessa.
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Author: allencole
Date: 2008-08-02 18:20
Just a couple of items to gauge feeling on.
1 - Most music stores in my area have a strict 'no-makeup' policy. This is probably healthy for customer mindset, but I would always want the ability to make exceptions. I know that most students--at least in my area--really can't afford to miss lessons with any frequency. It also helps customer goodwill. BUT...I would not want to create situation where I 'owe' customers for a lesson missed by them. (as opposed to one missed by me)
2 - For those of you who, like me, treat the summer as a separate, looser entity, how has this worked for you and what would you change?
3 - Meri, your post mentions that you will not accept students who don't take exams or perform. And you point to videos that you have made to demonstrate your prowess as a teacher. A few years ago, you inititated a thread presenting this as exploitive behavior on the part of the teacher. You even criticized my insistence that my private students audition for their all-district bands. What brought about the change in your views?
4 - A couple of local band directors moonlight as private teachers on EVERYTHING. One is a brass player who crosses over to woodwinds and a the other woodwind player who crosses over to brass. The county won't let them target their own classroom students, so they appear to target each others'. (I regularly send flyers to both, but have never seen one on display at either school) In both cases, I have no qualms with them as teachers of music itself--but I personally have never taught lessons on an instrument that you can't see me playing onstage somewhere.
I might as well start teaching guitar, so even more kids will be able to play 'Smoke on the Water' and 'Iron Man'. --or is this just sour grapes?
Allen Cole
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-08-02 19:45
I'm curious: Do adults, paying for their own lessons, seem generally more conscientious about practicing, showing up on time and showing up at all than kids whose parents pay the bills? Do kids, with professional ambitions, seem more conscientious than adults just playing for fun? Do adults, with adult patience and adult attention spans, work harder than kids who more easily succumb to boredom and frustration? Do students, eager to learn and not yet jaded, work harder than adults?
Or, are generalizations, such as these, worthless? ;-)
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: John J. Moses
Date: 2008-08-02 23:52
Good question Lelia:
I have know idea what current younger students habits are about their lessons. I've taught hundreds of College students & High School kids over the past 40+ years of teaching, and by in large, my students have been good, conscientious, hard workers, who always paid on time. The few who didn't, were removed from my classes.
My current adult & professional students always practice lots, are on time, and ALWAYS pay after each session, no matter how long or costly, that's just the way I work. Again, those very few who cancel or don't work hard enough, or "forget their checkbooks" are removed from my schedule.
It's simple:
No work
No preparation
No good attitude
No attendance
No on-time payment
Bye-Bye...
JJM
Légère Artist
Clark W. Fobes Artist
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Author: allencole
Date: 2008-08-03 03:44
I don't think that the generalizations are worthless at all, as long as you don't let it poison your attitude towards a new student.
Adults, in my experience are serious, but I find that most won't go but so far if they are beginning as an adult. Most of them seriously underestimate how much practice it takes, and seriously overestimate their ability to keep their existing life from interrupting their study. If I can quickly get 1 or 2 scales into them, they'll start playing by ear, and almost all of them are very good about doing written homework in Master Theory. I find it easy to get them to the point of basic scales and counting, and in playing things by ear that they'll then reverse-engineer on paper.
Practice is generally insufficient, because they are convinced that adult powers of reasoning will overcome the need to be slow and repetitive. I would rate overall progress as slow, but anyone with a few scales, and okay counting skills can have a productive lesson--although not always on what you assign them.
I find that most adults are less reliable than most children, because they do have lives, they do get embarassed about not practicing, and they don't have to teach themselves a lesson about the value of money. I can only speak this issue to a limited degree because I try to avoid putting adults on my evening schedule. I generally offer them lunchtime lessons (more time for same price) and don't demand perfect attendance. (i.e., I've made the situation work for myself, but have failed to make them as reliable as the kids)
Most of my adult beginners either quit within a year, or enter into a slower paced, more project-oriented mode of instruction. They often respond better to the theory, and enjoy writing their own duets, or delving into special styles that they enjoy. I'd like to see more brilliant playing results, but many of these folks will stay with me 3-4 years, as we work to pursue their interests. Not posterkids for my teaching, but I really enjoy them.
My successful adults are generally ones who have played before, and who are simply building skills or exploring jazz improv. Most are either involved in community groups, or become involved at my suggestion.
With kids, attendance is generally reliable, and payment is almost totally reliable. This is primarily due to the maturity of their parents. When my relationship is with the family, it is generally good and long-lasting. When the relationship is with a school program, both students and parents are generally trying to chisel or renegotiate anything they can. Lots of reasons for this, and I've already discussed some of them in previous posts. Even band directors can be extremely inconsiderate in terms of changing schedules, failing to inform you, etc.
This can probably happen with some music stores--particularly those who try to take ownership of the relationship with the client. Good communications with parents are essential, and the loss of it will quickly demote you from teacher to vending machine.
Allen Cole
Post Edited (2008-08-03 03:58)
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