 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-07-21 17:15
i understand why people suggest upgrading mouthpieces and barrells,
but what difference does a bell make? and when you upgrade a bell, what is better about it?
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-07-21 20:07
They make all the difference. A bell with a metal ring has a kinda ping to the sound whereas a bell with out doesn't. I was lucky enough to try all the Bakun bells and barrels today that have just come to London at Howarths and was quite surprised. I have never tried these things before and wondered how they would react on my Eaton Elites. Well the bells made the biggest difference in my opinion whereas the barrels did not. Perhaps this was because of the slight bore difference. If Morrie makes a barrel to 1010 specs then we might see some difference.
What was better? Well the Eaton bells are ring less and fairly thick in material and so trying the Bakun bells didn't feel different but what I did notice was that the sound became a lot more velvety especially with the dark wood bells. You have to experiment.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-07-21 20:19
would it make a difference on a plastic or hard rubber clarinet, or just wood?
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Author: clariknight
Date: 2008-07-21 20:34
(I'm not an expert but have dabbled in bell-switching) On a plastic clarinet a wood barrel and bell can make it sound almost like an actual wood clarinet, maybe not a great one but definitely better than the sound from the plastic. When I was still playing a plastic selmer I stuck a wood barrel on it and it sounded soooo much better, and with a wood bell it sounded almost passable for a decent clarinet. Just my findings, though, you may have your own experience with it. Like cigleris said, experiment.
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-07-21 21:28
hmmmm I have to mention Stanley Drucker. As I've heard and I think I'm right then he has always played on the same R-13 clarinet with the stock barrel and bell and I think Leandis(or how you spell it) mouthpiece(or at least the same brand all his carrer) and had it touched up now and then. Many people here rave about his playing as being a classic. The principle clarinetist in the Icelandic symphony has used at least Buffet,Eaton and Rossi with different mouthpieces(Eaton,Bay,Grabner and more) I do hear a difference from the time when he played the Eaton clarinets(Elite) and now that he is playing on Buffet Festival clarinets. But I think the main difference is that on the Eaton he played the Eaton mouthpiece with open and long facing with soft reeds but now he plays on Grabner K14 which has medium open and medium facing with medium hard reeds. The second chair clarinetist in the symphony said to me one day that he didn't hear much different in his playing from Eaton to Buffet. Sure you the player hear a difference but I think the question you should be asking yourself is does this piece of equipment make my djob(life or whatever) easier.
I have 14 years old R-13 Prestige A clarinet which I think is a great instrument. I had found for the last 2-3 years that it was becoming a bit uneven,stuffy and hard to voice. So I tried some Chadash barrels and I felt in love with it. It made the horn more even a bit lighter and vocing is much easier.
So Peter does the Backun bell make your work easier,did it solve a problem you had or do you just like to collect equipments?
when get a new mouthpiece of different brand or model(when the one I have has worn out) it make my life easier or at least as easy as before and I feel the difference for maybe 2 weeks and then I just sound as I did before.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-07-22 11:56
Well Iceland clarinet, I don't 'collect equipments' but I do like to keep up to date with things. I don't really have any problems that need solving other than the the one that involves making music. The Backun barrels and bells added a different dimension to my sound world, something that perhaps i'd like to try a little further. It's best to keep an open mind about these things really, I'm not one of these people who feels the need to chop annd change all the time. I know what works best for me so I stick with it.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-07-22 15:38
First off all, it’s silly to spend five to six hundred dollars on a bell for a plastic clarinet, for that matter even over two hundred for a barrel. I use the Backun barrels and bells on all my clarinets. At first I didn’t think a bell would make a difference but I was wrong. It makes going over the break smoother and my clarion register easier to focus. Did I need to get these to sound good, no? I played professionally for over thirty years without them and didn’t think I missed anything. Once I tried them I just fell in love with the feeling. I may or may not sound difference but I like what I hear when I play. The only thing to remember, especially with the Backuns, is that you have to try several, a whole bunch actually. I tried at least a dozen bells before I found what I liked for each of my clarinets and even more barrels. I’m in love, with my wife my bells and barrels. I thought I’d better through that in about my wife to play it safe. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 A little Mozart
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-07-22 15:55
Bell Test Procedure:
Play around with notes using only the fingers of your left hand.
Remove bell completely.
Repeat the left hand exercise.
Test Evaluation:
Did you notice any difference?
Probably not because the air column ends at the lowest closed tone hole.
Hypothesis: The bell can't do much for notes whose fingerings don't close holes really, really close to the bell.
I'm shocked that Ed Palanker finds his bell helping him over the break.
Bob Phillips
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-07-22 15:58
I use various vintage bells from some old companies on my Festivals. I haven't used the stock bells for years. It does make a difference. Maybe not for the audience, but for me. After all, I am the one that hears myself everyday for hours.
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-07-22 16:50
(Disclaimer - I sell Forte' Bb and C clarinets)
IMO bells do make a difference especially if your instrument does not have the auxillary low E key compensator and your low E & F tend to be flat or stuffy. A passive bell vent IMO helps these notes without harming the clarion B & C and improves the clarity of the notes in many cases. A tuning goove inside a bell (or whatever you wish to name it - we call it Tuned Resonance Acoustic Chamber) does IMO smooth the transition over the break while also affecting the lower notes in a positive way. Both mass and material of the bell IMO changes the timbre of the sound and is a personal choice given the rest of your set up - player, mouthpiece, reed, ligature, barrel and clarinet body. All of this concerns change - sometimes change is for the better sometimes of no consequence - and you know the third aspect.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: lllebret
Date: 2008-07-22 17:27
I also was of the opinion that bells wouldn't make much of difference until I tried a Backun bell while auditioning his barrels. The barrels made my sound darker but also somewhat less projecting but when I tried the bell with the Backun barrels I regained the projection and kept the darkness. Also, as Ed Palanker has stated, the response of my now pimped out clarinet is incredibly even. Another benefit, which no one has mentioned, is that my clarinet is now noticably lighter (my bell is cocobola and the barrel is rosewood). I use my Backun items only on my later R13 (340k serial) - the barrels I tried worked less well tuning wise on my earlier R13 (89k), but I only tried two barrels, and to be fair to Morrie, I had told him that I was trying his products on the later clarinet - he might have sent different barrels for my earlier clarinet. Since buying the Backun barrels and bell (which I wanted NOT to like as they aren't cheap), I NEVER play my later clarinet without them.
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Author: MartyMagnini
Date: 2008-07-22 20:29
I also use a Backun barrel and bell. I'm not sure if anyone but me can tell the difference. Maybe it doesn't sound better, but it sure feels better, and smoother across the breaks. I feel the same way about ligatures. I think it's foolish to think that any of these pieces of equipment will improve your sound, but if they improve the way the clarinet responds to you, then YOU can improve the sound. The Backun stuff takes away some of the "fighting the clarinet" for me. I feel like I sound better, but even if I don't it's still valuable to me to have the better response.
Post Edited (2008-07-22 20:31)
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-07-22 20:47
Bells make a noticable difference in tuning for the long notes. I have an R13 which as I understand is like allot of others with flat long f's and e's. I don't think I want to spend $500-$600 for a new bell to improve tuning i can usually adjust to. And as for sound, like most everything else, I'd sound lke myself again after a week or two. If it did in fact improve response and ease then maybey I'd CONSIDER it, but otherwise I don't see much need for a new bell.
BTW, what are some brands, besides Backun, that make bells that are intended to be sold seperatly?
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-07-23 05:57
The only non stock bells I've tried are the ones from Backun. I tried them mostly on a new Buffet clarinet (Vintage model). I found that they made a difference in the sound of the lowest notes and the long clarion notes too.
One thing I completely disagree with is: "A bell with a metal ring has a kinda ping to the sound whereas a bell with out doesn't."
The affected notes on the Buffet with stock bell (with metal ring) sounded more similar to the low notes on my clarinet (which doesn't have the metal ring) than when I tried it with the Backun bell (also without ring). This shows to me that at the very least the difference the ring makes is considerably smaller than other things (like the shape of the bell). But there was also nothign that I would describe as "ping" that existed only with bells without metal rings. I'm wondering if Peter says that based on identical bells he has tried, both with and without metal rings.
Anyway, the Backun bells made a difference when I played, but I also noticed a difference when the other player played (he owns them). I can understand why some players like the Backun bells. I preferred the stock bell.
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-07-23 14:20
how do metal rings make a difference?
The type of wood would create the greatest difference as the resonance would change.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: CEC
Date: 2008-07-23 19:42
Ryder,
Orsi and Weir have aftermarket bells:
http://orsiandweir.com/woodwinds_bells.php
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Author: Carol Dutcher
Date: 2008-07-23 20:56
Off the subject, but maybe still on the subject? I am looking for old bells, for Bb clarinets. I decorate them. My Mardi Gras bell has roses on it, they add a lot to the horn, maybe not tonality, but just pretty. So I'm looking for plastic bells, old wood, can even have a crack in them, whatever. You can contact me off line if you have any you would like to dispose of.
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Author: cigleris
Date: 2008-07-24 16:15
Clarinbass
I said that because I've never properly played a clarinet with a metal ring (1010s and Eatons) until I got my Selmer basset clarinet which does have a metal ring. In my opinion there is a huge difference in the sound from bells with rings and those without.
Peter Cigleris
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-07-25 05:05
Peter, so you are saying that based on the difference in the sound of your Eaton (or B&H) and the Selmer? I'm just trying to understand why you came to the conclusion that the metal ring makes the difference you noticed.
Nitai
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Author: Jack Kissinger
Date: 2008-07-25 16:09
Re: Brands besides Backun
At Clarinetfest, Yuan Gao was exhibiting his Royal line, endorsed by Jonathan Cohler. Have a look here:
http://royal-musical.com/
The Clarinetfest "special" was a free barrel with the purchase of a $550 bell. FWIW, one of the barrels was blue. I was told it was made of "American Colorwood." An exotic tree? I think not. As far I can find out, colorwood is essentially dyed plywood. Or, as Backun puts it "colored multi-layered wood." ![[right]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie8.gif)
BTW, of the performances I saw, the number of clarinetists using Backun, Gao, etc. barrels and/or bells was verrrrrry small compared to the number using more traditional equipment. (And nobody had a blue one. ![[frown]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie2.gif) ) Of course, many of the "traditionals" could well have been Chadash or Moennig as opposed to original equipment (and Jonathan Cohler sounded great).
Best regards,
jnk
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Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-07-25 19:40
Jonathan Cohler and Eddy Vanoosthuyse are on their artist list. Looks like it's going to be greater list of artist on their list than on Backun's list
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