 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: feadog79
Date: 2008-01-30 13:31
I started playing on a Ridenour Bb Lyrique Custom a few months ago, and a student of mine just purchased an Arioso Bb (and had it repadded by Tom Ridenour at my recommendation).
I thought I'd share the differences I notice between the two instruments, for anyone who's curious. About my own playing...I'm a conservatory trained clarinet player and school music teacher. I doubt I'm among the best players who post here, and I haven't done any graduate work (yet), so take my comments for what they're worth, and I hope they're helpful!
The Lyrique seems to have better keywork. Fitting seems tighter, and the overall feel and placement of the keys seems better. I definitely prefer the tone of the Lyrique to the Arioso; it just seems to have more tonal depth. Ridenour advertises that the Lyrique Custom has a "hand reamed polycylindrical bore design." I'm not overly knowledgeable about clarinet acoustics, but perhaps this results in the increased depth in the tone of the Lyrique over the Arioso? Both instruments have a very even blowing resistance, and are VERY well in tune.
I noticed that Ridenour now sells one Lyrique Bb...the "Lyrique Bb Custom RCP-576bc Model". He used to sell a "standard" Lyrique, the RCP-576b. If I remember correctly, the "standard" did NOT feature the hand reamed bore...so maybe the standard Lyrique was more like the Arioso?
At any rate...the Lyrique Custom is definitely a different instrument than the Arioso. If anyone tried the Arioso and was turned off by it, still consider giving the Lyrique Custom a try....it's not the same thing.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-01-30 15:15
I was turned off big time by the Arioso. Will have to try the Lyrique someday. The sound clips of it on Tom's website aren't flattering though, I'd re-do them.
The Arioso to me felt and played "studentish". Haven't heard a bad thing yet about the Lyrique - everyone seems to love it who has one.
And you can't beat the price. Wondering how the new Backun/Bliss models will play.
Good stuff out there nowadays.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-01-30 15:21
(Disclaimer - I sell the Forte' Bb and C clarinets)
Tom has sold the rights to Arioso to a Chinese company who is now producing and selling it. My own tests of the present Arioso at TMEA last year were less than satisfactory. The keywork and general fit and finish were not as good as when Tom himself sold them and set them up. Take this of course as my biased opinion.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: vjoet
Date: 2008-01-30 16:22
Just saw for the first time today that Rossi has a wooden student model clarinet, the Andino. Saw it listed at $845 on a site.
vJoe
(amateur)
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Author: feadog79
Date: 2008-01-30 17:06
I had forgotten that there are Ariosos out there not set-up by Ridenour. The Arioso I compared to the Lyrique custom was definitely one set up by Ridenour himself. I agree with David's comment...the Arioso also sounded "studentish" to me. For me, the Lyrique was everything I always wanted my previous instrument to be, but wasn't.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-01-30 19:54
I have an Arioso, delivered early in 2005, from Tom Ridenour. Very similar to my TR147s in construction and intonation. On his web site Ridenour now sells a student model Lyrique and a pro model Lyrique. By whom and where are Ariosos being sold? And, since he sold the company, who makes Ridenour's clarinets?
richard smith
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Author: L. Omar Henderson
Date: 2008-01-30 20:10
Tom sold the rights to the Arioso design to a Chinese company who sells them under the Arioso name now (and as of 2006) - I do not know the distribution but they have direct sales at shows. Tom still has his Lyrique line which are made to his specifications in China but he does the setup here in U.S. - TX.
L. Omar Henderson
www.doctorsprod.com
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-01-30 20:31
I've always wondered the equivalency of an arioso to the lyrique. thanks for clearing that myth out that the two aren't at all alike.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2008-01-30 22:22
Not too long ago I repaired a Lyrique clarinet, I have never seen one before nor have I heard the name. My first impression of the clarinet as I opened the case was not very good, I thought I was about to start working on one more of those $40 clarinets from Big-Mart. The keys were made of a rather soft and cheap material just like other clarinets coming from over seas and this repair was to fix a damaged and poorly fitted register key.
When I completed the repair I felt that the construction and quality of the clarinet was poor, pretty much on par with other clarinets manufactered from this same country or maybe one step better. I decided to look on line for more information about this clarinet and I was directed to the Clarinet BBoard where I found some glowing remarks about the tone and construction of this clarinet.
I couldn't get my mouthpiece into the barrel very well, the barrel was too small to accept my Morgan piece which is not over sized in any way but I jammed it into the barrel so I could play the instrument.
I found the tone to be rather uninteresting and dark without any high end to give it some life. In many ways I was rather unimpressed.
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-01-30 23:27
The Andinos I played at ClarinetFest were pretty darn good. I was limited to the plastic models, as my (Buffet compatible) mouthpiece would not go into the barrel of the wooden model.
I'm told that Rossi is working to improve the Andinos' intonation, and that they will be available soon.
Bob Phillips
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Author: feadog79
Date: 2008-01-31 13:52
I do feel that the keywork on my R13 was better fitted and better built than that of the Lyrique. I almost never had any adjustment problems with the Buffet...we'll see how the Lyrique does in the long run.
______________
" I couldn't get my mouthpiece into the barrel very well, the barrel was too small to accept my Morgan piece which is not over sized in any way but I jammed it into the barrel so I could play the instrument. "
______________
How standard is the size opening of the barrel supposed to be? I'm not trying to be a smart@#$...it's just that I can think of mouthpieces that would not fit perfectly into my Buffet either (both too tight AND too loose with some), but my own mouthpiece always fit fine. The barrel on the Lyrique has seemed normal to me...most mouthpieces fit fine, others are a bit snug, but nothing seemed out of the ordinary.
I find the tone of the Lyrique to be a bit more dark and silky than the R13...I agree with sbrodt54 in saying that it doesn't have as much "ring" in the high end. (Although, sbrodt54, I realize you weren't necessarily comparing it to a Buffet...) It kind of has a cushioned feel, actually. Personally, the darker tone is what I always strived for anyways...and I've found I can get a little more presence in the altissimo if I use a different mouthpiece.
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-01-31 15:13
I received no response to emails sent, during the past 12 months, to the contact on the Arioso Musical Instrument site. Nor have I seen the clarinets for sale by any dealer. A couple years ago the Allora was carried by some retailers, and also the Arioso Image, but recently I have seen none advertised. My advise would be to buy Ridenour clarinets direct from Tom Ridenour, who will set-up and adjust the instrument properly.
richard smith
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2008-01-31 15:54
Good question about barrels. There is very little variance between most brands of mouthpieces, the student Yamaha, Bundy, Buffet, Vandoren, Selmer, Morgan, G. Smith, Gennusa, all seem to be about the same size at the corked end. Barrels should be built to accept all of these pieces correctly, the fit should be tight but not impossible to get on or off.
Even the best, hand made barrels can change in size to be too small because of humidity or temperature changes, but if the climate conditions are fairly stable they should all work pretty well. Plastic or hard rubber should not change that much so the machining of a barrel to a specific size should not be all that difficult, lots of companies do it every day.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2008-02-01 15:38
I purchased the Lyrique custom from Tom at his workshop in Dallas. He tweeked it while I was there. It's a wonderful instrument. I took two other members of the clarinet section with me and they both also purchased instruments. One bought a C clarinet and the other bought a Bb like mine. It has made a huge difference in her playing tone, etc.
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Author: NorbertTheParrot
Date: 2008-07-22 21:20
feadog asked "How standard is the size opening of the barrel supposed to be?"
One would hope, very standard indeed, but in my extremely limited experience, it's not. I play Leblanc, and both the barrels that came with the instrument are a very tight fit on all the mouthpieces I've tried. The mouthpiece I normally use with it has had the cork sanded down, and is a loose fit in my plastic Yamaha. I'm told that it's the Leblanc that is non-standard, not the Yamaha - "standard" meaning "same size as an R13", I guess.
It may or may not be a coincidence that my Leblanc is also a Ridenour design. Also the middle joint of the Leblanc was a very tight fit, now adjusted by my tech so I don't have those frightening post-concert moments when the instrument won't come apart.
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-07-22 22:18
One would expect that some definition be given for terms used concerning materials used for clarinets, specifically the Arioso and the Lyrique. They are made of hard rubber and the response is what is different, not the quality of the sound itself, which is indiscernible from wood.(based upon my "blindfold" tests and recordings I have made.) However response is frequently presented as "the sound". The response differs. The horn is slightly less resistant to blow and the sound is rounder in terms of even quality of the basic scale or up into the second or third octave, no question.
I understand David Bloombergs comments completely because you will not get a wooden response, or let us say, a buffet response from a hard rubber clarinet. But like myself, I suggest you try the horn for a few days or weeks.
When I did, I could no longer go back to an instrument I truly loved, a Selmer 10S. (or my Leblanc, or my Yamaha.)
What I "felt" was thin and slightly strident in the grenadilla instrument, and so back I went to the Lyrique and let me say, it is better as far as the response and the intonation. The keywork is not. However it is not soft, nor is it bendable, no more than that of a French wooden horn, but it is not finished anywhere near as well, let that be clear.
No, I have not played the loud place in the first movement of the Brahms 2nd, (you know, the one answered by the second clarinet) with a hard rubber horn.
I do believe however that "forte" is not a problem within an orchestra any more than it is with any clarinet of any material.
As far as the Arioso is concerned, Tom didn't set them all up.as many were advertised a few years ago by many music stores under the Arioso name.This I imagine was when the company, (as Omar said) was changing hands.
The Arioso I bought was terrific, though with the above caveats. Tom (as it were) fixed these problems.
I bought and tried at least 10 or 15 Allora clarinets from 123 and/or WWBW, and frankly I found them to be astoundingly good. I finally bought an Allora A which I still use along with my Lyrique B. I have also ordered a plated Lyrique from Tom, different from silver which makes an unsavory reaction to hard rubber (I believe it may be called sulphuric acid), but the patina plating is supposed to be prettier than silver and lasts much longer.
Again , as Omar mentions,"now" anything called Arioso or Allora would be from a different company and perhaps unreliable as far as the kind of scale for which Ridenour is famous.
But again and finally, it is the response which is different in hard rubber, not the sound. I have found it never to get thin or strident, and the reaction to the tongue is equal.
Sherman Friedland
Post Edited (2008-07-23 14:12)
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Author: GAA1993
Date: 2011-11-29 00:40
I am really glad for the Internet right now. I have heard great and not so great things about Ridenour, all of them stated already on this page. My question is regarding the current Ridenour Ariosos. On the Ridenour Home Page, there is an advertisement for liquidation of all Ariosos by RidenourClarinetProducts. Each is fixed up, as Friedland mentioned two posts above this, although I have to ask still which is the better of the two: fixed-up Arioso or Custom Lyrique?
Here is the text from the page describing these final Ariosos:
"Because they were so late in our Arioso production they have the same key work and acoustical designs finalized for our present Lyrique. In addition, each is personally set up and hand tuned by me for each order, giving you the same clarinet as the Lyrique, identical acoustically and mechanically in every way except for the standard register key, standard thumb rest and, obviously, a different logo stamp––right down the to full warranty and custom services.
The best part for you is that we can sell these Ariosos, with one of my hand made mouthpieces, for $765.00--- a $300.00 savings compared to the Lyrique 576BC!"
Any comments?
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Author: Pastor Rob
Date: 2011-11-29 02:20
I got my Arioso directly from Tom early last year. I agree wholly with S. Friedland's assesment. I find it have a very even tone but it can't get as loud as my Yamaha 52 (a fact some may be thankful for). The mouthpiece that came with it is not good at all. I am thinking of upgrading the barrell and hope that it is not so tight on the mouthpieces. If I use any of my Vandoran mps I have to let it set a while before I can get them off. I like it well enough I plan to get a C clarinet from Tom when the funds are available.
Pastor Rob Oetman
Leblanc LL (today)
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-02-09 12:57
When I got my Arioso from Tom last year (2013) I also found the barrel that came with it to be super tight with any of my mouthpieces. So for some months I just used my other barrels (mostly a Ridenour Ivorlon).
A couple of weeks ago I needed to swap barrels around when the mic on the Ivorlon needed a rest/repair. So I attacked the Arioso barrel top end with sandpaper. Man does rubber dust stink! It really didn't take long or a huge effort to get it to where it's still tight, but not crazy. I might do more after I live with it a while, but I wanted to make sure I didn't go too far- easier to remove than add material you know.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
Post Edited (2014-02-09 17:59)
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-02-09 23:16
Part of the reason we send the barrels out fitting tight (in some cases it might be to tight due to error, Tom is human) is that corks compress over time so if it fits tight at first in a period of time, after the cork compresses, the barrel will fit properly. That's the intent at least.
Just wanted to explain why the barrels we include with clarinets typically are on the tight side.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: Tom Ridenour
Date: 2014-02-09 23:25
Actually it's not part of the reason it is the reason. Do t know why I said part.
Ted Ridenour
Ridenour Clarinet Products,
rclarinetproducts.com
sales@ridenourclarinetproducts.com
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Author: fskelley
Date: 2014-02-11 22:14
I should have sent that barrel back to Tom (especially rather than complain about it here, which I know is not very nice), and I know they would have fixed or replaced for me. I didn't return it because I had others I could use, and because UPS had already mixed up our shipments 12 ways to Sunday and I was just glad to have my new horn in hand!
I have 2 other barrels with which I have no trouble. At the top opening of my old generic wood barrel I measure 22.09 mm, and at the top of my Ivorlon barrel I measure 22.23 mm. After my sanding, the Arioso barrel measures 21.92 mm. And as I said, it is still tight. I think I measured about 21.85 mm before I started sanding. What's the ideal dimension?
Once I completely settle on mouthpieces, I hope I can adjust them all to tight enough but not too tight in all my barrels. Mouthpieces falling out are no better than mouthpieces that won't go in or (once in) won't come off.
Stan in Orlando
EWI 4000S with modifications
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