 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DrH2O
Date: 2008-07-19 03:12
Another intonation question,
This is a follow-up to an earlier thread about selecting a new clarinet. Many have advised to check the intonation as a first cut, ideally with a friend who can watch the tuner while you play so that you don't adjust your embouchure to bring the instrument in tune. Ken Shaw has said "intonation of an instrument has to be very nearly perfect to begin with...you can probably eliminate half of them on this criterion alone"
My question is what's considered acceptable intonation (how many cents off before it's not nearly perfect?) under these conditions? Are there notes that should be dead on and others for which more variability is acceptable? What about the twelfths? Should they be perfectly matched? Should you tune the clarinet first or test it with everything pushed in? If you have to pull the barrel, middle joint and bell to tune the 3 Gs should you bag it no matter the intonation results after you've tuned it?
Thanks for your help!
Anne
Clarinet addict
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Author: SVSorna05
Date: 2008-07-19 03:33
It seems to me that as long as the instrument is in tune with itselft then where the pitch actually lies is adjustable...within reason i.e. a different size barrel. It is when you have notes that aren't even close to the ones before it that you have a problem. A well made instrument should be right on the money except for maybe a note or two that is a few cents off either flat or sharp ...anything over 5 cents difference should be avoided.
Maybe it is just me but a well made instrument should not have to be pulled out significantly if the set up is good and the embouchure mechanics are correct. Just remember everything has to be as consistent and constant as you can make it. You have far too much to worry about playing wise then having to deal with pitch difficiencies. Remember when tuning to blow a healthy column of air and don't bite a lot as you go higher...Hope this helps ...I am curious to see what others think.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-07-19 17:46
Tom Ridenour said that if any note was within 2 cents sharp or flat, it was
"acceptable". If a clarinet can be tuned to play this close throughout its normal scale by pulling middle, bell and barrel joints and the resulting scale is even in response and tambre, I would consider this to be OK. No clarinet is ever going to be perfectly in tune without some adjustment for certain notes or registers. Ultimately, they all have to be PLAYED in tune.
And then, there's the problem of the reed...............................(grrrrr)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-07-19 22:15
I’ve never come across a clarinet that was perfectly in tune. It’s probably an impossible feat. First of all, it depends on the mouthpiece you’re using. Then if depends on how you voice certain registers. Many players voice the throat tones and clarion registers very differently so what’s in tune when you play it may note be in tune when I play it. Then there’s a matter of temperature and pitch. Are you looking for a clarinet that plays A440 in a room that’s 72 degrees, or one that plays A441 at 68 degrees? All these factors need to be considered so when you try them out you must consider that. Once you’re warmed up it will play slightly different from when you first begin. Are you trying them out after playing each one for 15-20 minutes before considering tuning? My opinion is that you look for a clarinet that you can play in tune not for a clarinet that plays in tune because there is no such thing. You need to be able to play any note perfectly in tune without distorting the tone. Perhaps putting a finger or two down for a throat tone, or opening a side key for another note or whatever. Obviously if there is a note on the instrument that can not be easily adjusted you should ovoid it but most players end up changing barrels, sometimes bells anyway because they often enhance the tone and intonation on a clarinet.
ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 (Mozart)
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-07-19 22:30
...besides, the "being in tune" depends on what kind of scale temperament you're using. Little use if your clarinet is within 1..2 cents but the clavichord or the crumhorn you're playing with (against?) is not.
I mean, one can get anal about being in tune and all that, but that does nothing have to do with actually making music.
Seriously - if you haven't got a tuner, would you hear minor aberrations? How do you know your tuner is accurate? +- 1.5 Cents? And you believe that? Has it been officially calibrated? See?
--
Ben
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-07-20 16:17
Assume I am your director. i expect you, as a professional, to play " in tune". To do that you need a clarinet which can be played in tune. Try enough and you (or your teacher hopefully) will eventually find one, and eventually you may be able to play in tune. There are quite a few out there which can not be played in tune. Try before buy.
richard smith
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Author: tictactux ★2017
Date: 2008-07-20 16:43
I hear you, Richard.
What is the consensus about the error margin for playing in tune?1 cent? 10 cents? 19? I (not being a professional) honestly don't know.
I am far more sensitive to unison-ness than being in tune, and that only for longish tones. I can see the benefits of "being in tune with the rest of the orchestra", if that ever can be achieved across the registers.
I don't know about the typical audience - where's the threshold of pain? What about the singers? How far are they off in a typical aria?
--
Ben
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