 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: LKKlarinet
Date: 2008-07-16 00:32
Harold Wright said that for professional players, a clarinet can only last for about 10 years?
I would like to hear some comments about this statement. Also, how to make a clarinet "live" longer.
LKKlarinet
Borbeck V12 Bob Harrison S-1Buffet
Post Edited (2008-07-16 00:33)
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Author: Don Berger
Date: 2008-07-16 02:00
With T L C and not cracking, a good cl will outlast its owner, IMHO. Don
Thanx, Mark, Don
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Author: John O'Janpa
Date: 2008-07-16 02:26
For professionals that may be true, but for us poor amateurs a good clarinet, well maintained can last for many decades. I'm sure that Harold Wright played as much in 10 years as I have in 50.
Swab, clean, lubricate, replace pads, replace key corks, replace tenon corks, adjust keys, swedge, replace springs, etc. as needed. For most mere mortals an instrument can last a lifetime.
Most serious players will at some time succumb to the allure of a newer sexier model with better intonation, better tone, better key action, etc.
This is why many players switched from the "Balanced Tone" to the "Centered Tone" model.
Or was it E-11 to R-13?
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-07-16 02:47
I’ve used my Selmer bass clarinet now for 42 years and it plays better then when it was new. I’ve used my Buffet set, new bells and barrels, for 40 years and they play better then new, my Eb clarinet is 48 years old, plays great. My new Selmer Bb is only two years old so I can’t say. I met the principal clarinetist of one of the London Symphonies several years ago and he was using a 40 year plus instrument. I think it depends on the player, how they take care of it, what adjustments they made, bells and barrels etc, and the environment it is kept in including the weather conditions and climate of the area they live in. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 (Listen to a little Mozart, live performance)
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-07-16 03:20
I'm with Ed. I think if you get new mouthpieces/barrels as necessary (read: different types of playing, different styles of music as your career may or may not change) that the clarinet can last a loooooong time.
My main horn (R13) is from 1969. I got it in 1983 and haven't looked back except when I sent it to the Brannens in 1987 or so. Then I had to play the Signet I started on.
I have many other clarinets, but can't NOT play this one!
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-07-16 07:18
Mabey we are misunderstanding what Harold Wright meant.
John O'Janpa said
"Most serious players will at some time succumb to the allure of a newer sexier model with better intonation, better tone, better key action, etc."
Styles of music change with time as mentioned above and so does the idea of a "good tone."
Mabey Harold was thinking on another level.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-07-16 13:20
Just to expand a bit from the professionals that I studied with and what I have read pro's comment on hear on the board:
Although a pro may buy a new horn lured by a new model, this is not the explanation that I have experienced from them.
It is that they discover over the course of using the instrument for (about) 10 years that the horn no longer responds in the manner that they would like at the highest level they demand.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: Lynn
Date: 2008-07-16 14:22
I tend to agree with Ed Palanker. I'm 64. My Buffet Model 13 is 73 years old. The clarinet is in far better condition than I am. It's only been to the hospital once in the last few years. My Buffet bass clarinet is only eight or nine years old. I doubt I'll even be able to get it "broken in." My mentor plays a set of sixties-vintage R-13s, and they probably average getting played four to six hours daily. Never have I heard him express any concern that they may become "blown out." (where did that goofy term come from?)
It's my opinion that any good instrument that is cared for properly (swabbing after every playing, good storage techniques, and proper maintenance) will last much longer than the human on the pointy end of the horn. Remember, though, that opinions are worth exactly what you paid for them! Enjoy your summer and best wishes.
Lynn
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Author: William
Date: 2008-07-16 14:55
After 40 yrs of use, my R13s are doing just fine--it's my ears with all the tinnitus that are wearing out. All the hoohaa regarding instrument care aside, think ear plugs.........
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Author: Wes
Date: 2008-07-16 20:36
Yes, I have 1912, 1921,1971, 1998, and 2005 Buffet soprano clarinets, all of which are simply wonderful to play. The two early ones are full Boehm which I needed a change from but are still fine.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2008-07-16 20:44
It's my opinion that a clarinet does come to a point where it is no longer at its optimum playability even after overhauls. It depends upon the instrument, however, and some can last for decades. It is a conflicted argument (as you can see from above comments), but it depends upon how much you play and if you are playing professionally or not. Also, if you have a really good one and it plays just like you want, hold on to it for as long as possible and enjoy!!
Not something to really worry over. You'll know if you need to get another one.
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Author: William
Date: 2008-07-17 20:07
What I really believe is that is isn't a case of the clarinet changing--ie, becoming "blown out" through relentless swabbings, etc--but rather the ears of the player that change through normal aging that gives the aural perception that the sound has changed.
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Author: Avie
Date: 2008-07-17 21:36
They sell many differant size clarinet bores. Running a silk cloth through the bore even millions of times could possibly change the tone for the better! Blown out? ![[toast]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smiley15.gif)
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Author: marshall
Date: 2008-07-18 17:08
I think the life of a clarinet probably depends on two things.
First, how it is maintained. If you keep your instrument in good humidity and care for it like we've all been taught, it could probably outlive you. If you don't take care of it, it may only last half a decade.
Second, chance. I think that, like essentaily everything else about clarinets, individual instruments have different characteristics, including lifespan. You could think about it like a fine wine. Some wines sit in a wooden cask for 60 years and get better every year until they deterioate into vinegar. At the same time, some wines last a few years before it goes bad. I think this could explain why some clarinetists play on the same instrument their entire professional life, and others get a new instrument every 4 to 5 years.
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Author: JoueJolie
Date: 2008-07-21 05:33
My teacher told me my R13 Bb clarinet was blown out this year. I didn't really want to believe him because my clarinet is only 7 years old and I'm a student who is low on cash. The fact of whether or not the instrument is blown out is complicated.
The two big problems my instrument has are unfixable flat throat tones and lack of hold. Talking about "hold" is kind of abstract and it usually seems to determine if/when an instrument is blown out. As far as the flat throat tones, you could probably argue different reasons than it being blown out.
I play on a synthetic barrel on that clarinet and various mouthpieces. I also tried other barrels to see if it would help the problems. The instrument still wasn't to the level I needed.
I tried a new R13 and the throat tones weren't flat and it had better hold. The hold was determined by playing the first page of the Copland on both instruments. The new instrument was more even through the registers and was generally easier to play.
I don't know which instrument would have played better brand new. Its possible that my older clarinet always had less hold and flatter throat tones but it didn't really present itself until I reached a certain point in my playing. So, I don't know if my instrument is really "blown out." Anything that makes you better without practice is certainly a good thing, so I got the new R13.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-07-21 06:03
A local clarinetist has a Buffet RC Prestige. I only mention the model to show it is supposed to be a very good clarinet. It is about five years old. For a long time it didn't play right, with very stuffy and flat notes, especially in the throat area. She remembered it played fine before, but it has been to at least two repairers for the problem to be fixed (both times it improved, not completely fixed, and came back very quickly after). Her teacher told her maybe it's a crack, but they couldn't find one. He said the clarinet is very bad and she should probably get a different one instead i.e. it is blown out. When I checked the tone holes I found a lot of them had a lot of dirt on the bottom, like a nest of dirt making the tone holes smaller. This is a type of dirt that you couldn't remove with a pipe cleaner or q-tip, and not even with a regular small nylon brush. It needed a lot more cleaning than that to remove it, but after it was clean (and some other repairs) it played like new.
She was ready to change her clarinet but after the repair she isn't even considering it anymore. Just one example of a clarinet that was supposedly "blown out" but all it needed was some repair. I can understand why the player assumed it was "blown out" because it was only possible to see the problem by removing keys and looking with direct light to the holes, plus it was "repaired" twice by two different people so what was she supposed to think.
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-07-21 06:36
I've seen a number of clarinets where all it took was a fresh barrel (often times a stock barrel of the same make/model) to breath new life into a supposedly blown out clarinet.
Case in point: My 96xxx R13 (1967) - after a recent servicing was mechanically perfect but still played without the coloration and focus which once had been present. As an experiment, I changed the original 40 year old stock barrel (which I had always used) with another from a 1970's era Buffet and sure enough, the sound I was looking for (and remembered) immediately returned.
Thus, before deciding a clarinet is past its prime, changing something as simple as a barrel, or a worn out mouthpiece, ligature, etc... can sometimes make a big difference.
...GBK
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Author: donald
Date: 2008-07-21 06:40
It is of course possible that some clarinets "blow out" and others don't- my R13 B flat went through a significant change in its first three years of life (and cracked), but now seems to have settled down. Another piece of wood may have a different journey. Certainly there are some very lovely clarinets from decades past, I have also found instruments from those times that were really quite bad and can't be certain they started out that way.... hmmmm
dn
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-07-21 12:24
I've looked at so many used clarinets that I wouldn't dare generalize about how long a clarinet lasts. The ones I've bought (some dating back to the late 19th century) have lasted just fine, although all of them except a couple of modern ones did need rehab with cleaning, new pads, new corks and so forth. Some of the clarinets I didn't buy looked unsalvageable or too beat-up to be worth salvaging.
I don't worry much about whether or not blow-out really happens because it's a moot point when I see so much wreckage that could have been prevented in the most obvious ways. I do think it's worthwhile to debate which types of swabs are best, but *some* type of swab is essential right from the start--refine the specifics later!
People rarely make a decision to quit, right? They just sort of stop practicing and the clarinet sits there in whatever condition it was in the last time it got played. That means one thing we can do to protect the instrument is put it away every day as carefully as if it's the last day anyone will play it for the next fifty years. You never know. In March, I fell on concrete and sprained my right wrist so badly that it was close to three months before I could play any musical instrument except piano for the left hand alone. (Okay, I guess it's time to quit calling that a sprain, since it healed somewhat crooked.) I've still got a slightly abnormal "buzzing" sensation in my middle and fourth right fingers. If that injury had been even slightly worse, my own clarinets might have ended up in storage for decades.
Putting a clarinet away wet leads to a mess, especially if, later, the heirs ignorantly store the instrument away in a damp basement as the case slowly deteriorates. That treatment can distort the wood and ruin the best clarinet in the world, even if the instrument has hardly been played.
Accidental damage from dropping a clarinet or trying to bend keys that were manufactured by casting instead of forging goes near the top of the list, too. Sometimes, when I open a case and find a wrecked pro-quality clarinet and a beginner book or other artifacts of childhood, I see the sad consequences of giving a fine clarinet to a child who's too young to appreciate it or care for it. While we're happily obsessing over the details (and I do that as much as the next person), we need to back off and look at the larger picture, too.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: Claire Annette
Date: 2008-07-22 17:05
Wow. What a timely topic. I've been playing my Buffet R13 since it was new in 1979. I've been toying with the idea of getting a new horn but may have it overhauled first to see if that helps.
I love the sound it produces and it's as comfortable to play as your favorite old slippers are to wear. It's showing some difficulties in some areas though and my changes in mouthpiece, ligature, and reeds have made this more apparent to me.
Lots of good advice on here.
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Author: graham
Date: 2008-07-23 07:14
Does this mean that the barrell was "blown out" but the rest of the clarinet was not? Or was your relationship with the barrell "blown out"? Did you try the old barrell on the 1970s Buffet and if so, how did it sound?
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-07-23 07:51
>> Does this mean that the barrell was "blown
>> out" but the rest of the clarinet was not?
Could be but some barrels are never good in the first place and you don't realize it until you compare with a different one. The same RC I mentioned above felt a bit too resistant especially when you tried to play a bit louder. It was practically preventing you from doing that. Then I tried it with several different barrels and with none of the others there was a problem. The original barrel, which is only about five years old, is just very bad. The owner never realized it because she has never tried a different barrel before.
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Author: D Dow
Date: 2008-07-25 01:27
GBK hit the nail on the head..sometimes barrells can become quite impregnated with deposits from water we put through it(the clarinet) and deystroy what was once a very fine sounding horn. A clarinet that is used alot of course may simply wear out like a car. As to blow out it should certainly not occur if the instrument is not used a pile of the time like a symphonic player..and by the way symphonic players can play a instrument to the point of oblivioun
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As to blow out I think the idea is great but too nebulous a concept. John deLancie used a really old oboe for years and sounded great..he thought the idea was silly. He also took great care of his oboes though.
David Dow
Post Edited (2008-07-25 01:28)
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Author: LKKlarinet
Date: 2008-07-25 04:15
Thanks everyone. It is great to hear so much experiences in such a short time. Here are my summery:
(1) Blow-out is a "individual" case instead of a general phenomenon.
(2) Good care and maintenance are the basics.
(3) Check the barrel
LKKlarinet
Borbeck V12 Bob Harrison S-1Buffet
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