 The Clarinet BBoard
|
Author: vjoet
Date: 2008-07-11 14:21
Hi,
A couple days ago my teacher, John, let me try his Elite in Bb. Intonation, tone quality, evenness in all registers, responsiveness, little resistance...well it just blew me away.
The Elite is of the FINEST wood, but the wood is much thiner than a R13, and so the instrument weighs a lot less. I noticed the lowest tone hole on the E/B was raised, and the register vent considerably higher than on a R13. I also noticed the interior of the bell was tapered differently. In all, quite a bit different from my 1961 R13, or my 1971 Prestige.
He said he is going to put his Wurlitzers aside and play the Elite henceforth. I think it an good choice, for as we played duets, his tone was richer, and more vibrant.
Buffet stopped production on the Elite in 2002. John said they never caught on in the States, for the refined tone didn't appeal much to American clarinetists. It certain does to me! Its tone had the sweetness of my 1961 instument, and the intonation was a bit better.
Good news: A sponsor of this board told me Buffet is bringing the Elite back later this year. I'm waiting in line. Wow! What an instument.
(Oh, I've already done a google for used Elites, and find none.)
Best wishes,
Vann Joe
(amateur)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Menendez
Date: 2008-07-11 15:26
Hi,
Last Monday a colleague was testing a Buffet Elite in a rehearsal... Well, no noticeable difference in sound and tone with his RC Prestige, even in pitch, too much sharp about my Wurlitzer in all registers, which despite the heat remained more stable in pitch.
I think that there are few Buffet Elite sold due to its high price offered for the outcome, so it is very difficult to find used Elites in Internet. We find better value for money in the RC Prestige or RC. So are the best sellers.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2008-07-11 17:07
I had a very nice conversation with Wolfgang Lohff, of “Lohff and Pfeiffer.” http://www.clarinet.dk They do wonderful clarinet overhauls and restoration work. He was in Kansas City (at the ICA conference) showing their craft and I noticed an Elite clarinet amongst all of their other Buffet instruments and I asked him about them. He said that they are still available at his music store. The one I tried was and excellent horn.
These folks offer incredible modifications and overhaul work and are well worth getting to know. They are located in Copenhagen Denmark, but obviously they are willing to work with customers from abroad…as they were showing their stuff in the US, and last year in Vancouver Canada. I understand that they have affiliations in Great Britain as well.
I look forward to the next conference so I can spend a little more time with them and learn more about their instruments.
Brad Behn
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-07-11 17:25
No two clarinets of any brand, make or model play the same. Good luck.
I tried a Vintage when they first came out and I loved the one I tried. Buffet came to the BSO to let us try it in our hall. It was so much like my 1965 R13 with a great tone and intonation. He was taking the Vintage and some other models to orchestra players around the country. After a few months I called him and asked if I could buy the one he had me try but could not find it, it went into inventory. I tried over a dozen that year and never found one that played as well as that one did. Get my message? ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
(Listen to a little Mozart, live performance on an older Buffet R13, mid 60s)
ESP eddiesclarinet.com
Post Edited (2008-07-11 18:28)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2008-07-11 18:07
I stocked and sold the Elite when it was available here in the states, it was promoted to me as a retailer to be the "end all" of clarinets. The intonation was supposed to be vastly superior to anything else on the market to a point that good players will have to re-learn how to play the upper register.
Yes, you will need to learn to NOT change anything in your performance to edge up a flat note or lower a sharp one, this clarinet plays perfectly in tune,period.
I bought several and passed them around to every good player in the valley, I got the same reponses from all of them, this playes VERY well, as well as the clarinet I currently own.
Good reports but no one felt it was quite worth the price at that time. I have had to work on them as they needed repair and they were some what difficult to repair because of the plastic set screws all over the keys, they tended to strip, break or get stuck. If you get the chance to buy one and you love it, don't pass up the chance to own a clarinet that plays that well, the repairs were tough but not impossible.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: GBK
Date: 2008-07-11 18:40
I remember trying out the Elite clarinet during a few of the Clarinetfests in the mid 1990's. I kept hoping my impression of it would change, but it never happened.
My visual impressions were mixed - the wood, being unstained was beautiful and of apparent good quality, however the gold plated key posts looked tacky. The Buffet rep said that the gold posts helped with the vibration/sound, but I never bought the explanation. The lack of tenon rings (polycarbonate fiber) was an interesting idea and probably contributed both to the overall sound and weight of the clarinet.. If I remember correctly, I think that there were (plastic?) tone hole inserts (a la the E11).
The most appealing quality of the Elite was the overall weight of the instrument. It definitely felt lighter to hold and for playing in extended periods of time this would be a real advantage.
Now for the negatives - the body is thin walled and although the Buffet reps assured me that cracking should not be any more of an issue than with other Buffet clarinets, the thin walled body looked fragile.
The sound was small and compact. On each and every trial, with different mouthpiece/reed combinations the clarinet just didn't have the traditional R13 sound which I was used to. Being primarily an orchestral player, this concerned me. Instead, the sound of the Elite was light, sweet and compact. Thus, if chamber music is your venue, the Elite could be the answer.
The Elite also had metal resonators on the lower pads. I assume that Buffet also noticed that the sound was small and they needed to add something to boost the output.
BTW - Since the register vent and the pacement of the tone holes is different than the traditional R13, they included both 63mm and 65mm barrels for either 442 or 440 tuning.
...GBK
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: vjoet
Date: 2008-07-11 19:04
Hi Brad Behn,
Thanks for that link. I went there and although trying to read the Danish was difficult, I found the listings for the Elites. When I convert the kr 37.099 to USD, I get $8,166. That is more than I am willing to do at this time, and I'd like to try out several to select from, and don't know how we'd work that from Denmark.
I'm still looking. I wish a Buffet rep would respond regarding the company's plans for reintroducing them.
Vann Joe
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-07-11 19:08
The Elite Clarinets didn't sell well at ALL. WWBW sold just a handfull of them period. I was friends with the then head of customer service and he viewed them as a Clarinet that a wealthy Doctor would buy in an attempt to purchase talent.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Iceland clarinet
Date: 2008-07-12 04:01
Lohff and Pfeiffer are very expensive and I've heard from professional clarinetist that used to have his instruments serviced there that you could get same quality of service for less somewhere else so they are very much overpriced. And the old story is that each repair workman will tell that he is better than something else. I heard also that a respected retailer in UK said that they didn't like the work from Eddy Ashton(superpads) and so on.
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: hartt
Date: 2008-07-12 07:25
van joe
email a few of the mail order retailers. I believe a while back, Weiner's had a set of Elites.
As with Brad Behn, I, too, met Lohff and Pfeiffer in Vancouver.
They had an Elite and a Vintage Bb that was set up very nicely, as well as their other clarinets.
The Vintage had all new pads. I don't recall them but they were not the 'stock' Vintage pads.
They were very accommodating, personable and competitive in pricing.
That Vintage Bb was sold at the Fest. It was sold on a handshake agreement: give a deposit, take the clarinet and mail us the balance.
regards
dennis
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Brad Behn
Date: 2008-07-12 15:06
I think the Elite is a meritorious design and I was sad to know of its discontinuation. That is why I was pleasantly surprised when Wolfgang told me that he carries it. He indicated that Buffet still makes them for Lohff and Pfeiffer, but I am not certain I understood him correctly. Perhaps he has NOS.
In any event, they offer a fine service and for those looking for excellence, they are well worth deeper exploration. I greatly appreciate the fact that they and a handful of others: Tim Clark is amongst the top of my list, bring their art to the clarinet community.
I should also mention that to those looking for quality service at a low price. Please accept my recommendation of Bob Joffs (Salt Lake City Utah). He works at Burt Murdock Music in Holladay. He offers friendly service and high quality restoration/repairs at a shockingly low price.
Brad Behn
http://www.clarinetmouthpiece.com
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: vjoet
Date: 2008-07-12 15:24
Via email I was offered a Bb Elite at reasonable price. I'll get it Tuesday, and will have a couple weeks to try it out before purchase.
And I'll be able to see how it does with a clarinet section and band for I'm going to a band camp next weekend. Unfortunately, orchestra doesn't start back till Sept. (Local community band is off for the summer too.) But being able to test it as it'll be played is certainly fortuitous!
Vann Joe
(amateur)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-07-12 16:54
This is just a thought...and I don't want to dampen anyone's enthusiasm for a wonderful horn!!!!
With the price described and implied above...couldn't you buy an R13 A and Eb clarinet for the same money?
...And have them setup properly with fine mouthpieces to go along?
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-07-12 17:30
with 8 grand, you could probably buy an Bb, A, and Eb. for the same cost yup you're speculation is probably right.
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-07-12 18:35
I always find it amusing when I read that a clarinet, any clarinet, simply plays in tune. Guess what, a clarinet does not play in tune, the player plays in tune, or not. Sure, if the clarinet has problems that can’t be voiced properly than even a fine player will have problems. I’d gladly pay 8K for an instrument that simply plays in tune all by itself. Every one voices throat tones, the clarion register and the low register differently so what’s perfect for one player is out of tune for another. I’ve worked with many players, young, old, amateurs, students and professionals and have pointed out numerous times to players that they are voicing certain notes out of tune and I would demonstrate how I play it sharper or lower then they do. Yes, a clarinet has to be well in tune with it self, as much as a clarinet can be, then it’s the player that plays in tune or not. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 (Listen to a little Mozart, live recording)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: vjoet
Date: 2008-07-12 18:41
Hi,
Thanks for the posts about what instruments 8000 could buy.
I realize you are trying to offer sage advice, and I presume my ususal (amateur) tag suggested to you that I'm young or inexperienced. I'm not. I've 59, and took up study of the clarinet again 4 years ago after 35 years away from it. I don't play on a pro level, but hold my own with clarinet performance majors.
I have 3 Bb Buffets: 2 vintage (1961, 64), 1 Greenline,
2 A's: RC Prestige (1969), and a Lyrique
1 Eb: Leblanc
1 Alto, that I never touch.
And the offer is for $2000, just 25% of the 8000 new price. If my trial goes well, I'll consider myself VERY fortunate indeed.
Vann Joe
(amateur)
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-07-12 19:55
Aha!
Glad to find someone else whose clarinet driven existence allows me to feel better about the number of clarinets that I own!
(Obviously) I retract my suggestion!
James
Gnothi Seauton
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
Author: nickma
Date: 2008-07-13 14:48
I agree with those of you who think of the Elite as quite small sounding. Very pretty instrument, beautifully made, stunning finish to the pad cups, and really easy to set up - I did a complete overhaul on the one I bought second hand about 2 years ago, and sold it on at a high price and profit on ebay. Given the stuff about how unrestricted the sound was meant to be given the carbon tenon rings and thin walls, I was really disappointed by it. I just didn't get a truly vibrant singing sound, not in the way that pre war clarinets can open out. Yes it was accurate-sounding, but so was Selmer's 9 star model, and remember how dull sounding that instrument was? OK, very different instruments... I can easily see how nice it will feel to own one, and if it fits with a player's mental idea of what they want to sound like, then that is really wonderful. However pretty, it just didn't sound special for me.
Nick
|
|
Reply To Message
|
|
The Clarinet Pages
|
 |
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
.jpg){kind=small}
