 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: clarinetdaniel
Date: 2008-07-08 00:20
Hi,
I found my open G/ and the next A, is very different tone-character than the next B.
Any tips to match the tone-character?
I heard about the word "throat note". Is that the open G and the next A? or more?
And why they are called "throat" note. Does it implies that we should use our throat to resonate the note out? Is that a hint to match the tone-character?
Thanks
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-07-08 01:50
The throat tones are the four notes (open) G, G#, A, and A# and they are called so because they are in the throat of the instrument with a characteristic sound that dissimilar with the ranges they connect.
The first thing to do is to learn to "cover" = covering the tone holes of the right hand to add some depth to the sound and bring the pitch down.
Different combinations of fingers produce different qualities (resonance fingerings). As well different players will use different resonance fingerings to reach the same end, and honestly I use different fingerings for each clarinet that I play.
In the beginning start simply: first, second and third fingers of the right hand.
James
Gnothi Seauton
Post Edited (2008-07-08 01:52)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-07-08 02:45
Tobin gave you very good advise. Think of the mouthpiece as the head and just below the barrel as the throat of the instrument. Those notes that have tone holes near there are called the throat tones. E to the Bb are commonly called that. Many times a different barrel will change the quality of the “throat tones” so if you should try several different brands and sizes. Be careful when covering the holes as Tobin said because some combinations will make the G, G#, A and Bb flat. Try covering the third finger of each hand with or without depressing the F-C key. That works very well for the Bb, it may also work for the other notes. If not try different combinations. The 2nd and 3rd finger in the left hand or just the 3rd finger often makes those notes better without going flat. Otherwise experiment with different combinations but also voice the notes, meaning using your throat and tongue position to help the quality as well. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 (Listen to a little Mozart, live recording)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-07-08 17:07
The throat notes require special attention. Make sure you keep the embouchure firm for these notes, especially the corners. One way of approaching these notes is that they are just smaller in size(imagine a smaller diameter circle) compared to a B in the staff , but the focus is very important. Don't let these notes become limp due to insufficient air flow. It is much like a limp handshake. If you are met with one of these you have the tendency to respond in kind. The throat notes don't require much air but you shouldn't respond in kind....blow. In summary.....firm embouchure...firm air.
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-07-08 17:14
On my Buffet, there seems to be no help for the open G and G#, but I use resonance fingerings for the A and Bb. Try these, and check their pitch. On my particular instrument, the intonation is as good as that of the conventional fingerings.
A:
A OXX|OXX F/C (use the left or right F/C depending upon which pinky you'll be needing next.)
Bb:
RA OXX|OXX F/C (same comment on the pinky key choice)
I've gotten so used to these (left or right pinky) for Bb that I seldom use the side trill key alternative for Bb.
Bob Phillips
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-07-10 17:35
In addition I would pay special attention to tuning these notes. Use a tuning meter and check. If they are very sharp then you will naturally tend to back away from them when you are playing. ie...play softer. Since these notes are lacking already in breadth of tone, this is disastrous. The throat tones are affected a lot by pulling the barrel out. Pulling out 2-3 mm is about the most you should pull. Beyond this you should get a longer barrel. good luck
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: clarinetdaniel
Date: 2008-07-10 23:06
Thanks.
My thread notes tends flat, so I use lots of air flow, and air pressure trying to get them in tune.
Is that a bad habit?
(It will use up my power for 1~2 beat, and need breath again............ I do not think I can do this in a real piece sonata.)
For A and open G, I now tend to cover all my right fingers (plus my pinky in the F key). It works better for me (mine is Yamaha 250). But is that only for practice long-note-tone. Will that slow down my fingering for fast passage (other word, is that use in real performance or just for practice session?)
Daniel
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-07-10 23:28
Daniel,
Are you saying that you can only play for 1 or 2 beats before you must take a breath? Or do you mean 1 or 2 measures?
What strength reed are you using?
In the beginning it will be difficult for you to cover in moderate or fast passages. With time and practice you can cover the throat tones at most speeds.
The louder one plays on the clarinet the flatter the pitch becomes. The softer one plays the sharper the pitch. This is a another fundamental "flaw" in the instrument that we learn to compensate for.
If the music call for forte and my throat tones are now in tune I may not cover at all. If it is piano I may cover with more fingers or a different combination.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: clarinetdaniel
Date: 2008-07-10 23:38
Hi James
I use Rico 2.5 (It is quite soft for me)
Normally, I can play 1~2 measures for throat A or G.
But, if I do want to intentionally matching the note from A to Bb (as close as possible), then I have to use as much as air I have, and push the air as fast as possible to create that matching tone. Then, the A or G will be much louder (more resonate) and as much closer to timber of Bb (I use the C fingering + my left pinky to get my Bb).
(Fyi, I am a Saxophone Alto player double on Clarinet)
Post Edited (2008-07-10 23:39)
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-07-10 23:58
"I use the C fingering + my left pinky to get my Bb"
That note is not Bb...it is B. Bb is played by fingering the A key and the register key with the thumb.
"Normally, I can play 1~2 measures for throat A or G."
At what tempo? If you mean that you can play for eight seconds that's ok (but not good) and if it is less than there is an issue. This aspect of your problem is difficult to diagnose without hearing you play.
Rico 2.5's are a good starting off point. What mouthpiece do you play?
Matching the throat tones to the first note of the clarion register (the B that you describe) is an issue for most clarinetists. It is wonderful that you are trying so hard to solve the problem, but I would not suggest fixating on it.
Being conscience of the problem, using the resonance fingerings (finding which are best for you), and time will allow you to blend the sounds more effectively.
James
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: clarinetdaniel
Date: 2008-07-11 00:15
yes, you are right, I am talking about B.
I am playing a C-scale from low E to high C (above space).
I got most frustrating about the movement from A to B, the timber just so different that I cannot accept myself.
And, if I use all my air to blow the open G , A, B, then I might get a little closer. (But that is the problem I describe above, I need to use up all my air just for that G-A-B 3 notes).
If I do not care much about the timber, yes, I could hold open G or A about 8 sec (at most), but for other easy notes, I can hold much longer (20 sec easily)
I am using the Yamaha 4C.
So, for a beginner, it is not a good timing to focus on that problem? I was just thinking I might get bad-habit if I do not handle it now.
Daniel
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Author: Tobin
Date: 2008-07-11 00:42
I am not saying give it NO thought. Just don't let it impede your forward progress.
It is important to give every flaw in our playing its due attention, but you must beware the times when you over-focus on one problem and subsequently ignore others (or simply become so frustrated or depressed that you have no energy to succeed). "...the timber just so different that I cannot accept myself."
I think as well, Daniel, that most players can hold those throat tones longer than the notes below them. Without being able to hear you play I don't think it is useful to speculate on whether the problem is you, your reed, your instrument, etc...
James
Also, beginning on low E and proceeding to C is not really a C scale...it is the E phrygian mode. I would recommend that you start on C...go up to C...descend through the original C to low E and back up to the original C.
Gnothi Seauton
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Author: clarinetdaniel
Date: 2008-07-11 01:39
Hi,
thanks for your info. Your comment is very useful.
today, I will start my first private lesson, and I post here my progress.
E phrygian, mmmmmmmmm, very true.
Daniel
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-07-11 04:13
1. "(Fyi, I am a Saxophone Alto player double on Clarinet)"
Clarinet does typically need a fair bit more air pressure than alto sax, and also more lip support on the reed. It also requires a different embouchure, with a much thinner line of lip in contact with the reed.
2. The throat notes can have a very 'fuzzy' sound if the pads concerned do not lift high enough off the tone holes. That is the pad under the F# ring key, and th pads under the throat A & G# keys. The lifting is determined by cork thickness, geometry of the key ( by bending), by the thickness of the pad (especially the thickness of the felt of a felt pad), and by the way the pad is installed
3. Throat notes can be more fuzzy if the reed is too hard for your breath pressure and your associated lower lip support.
Post Edited (2008-07-11 04:16)
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