 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: patrickryan04
Date: 2008-03-28 23:45
Hello all,
As allways I appreciate the great feedback provided on the board.
I recently began having pain in my right thumb along with allot of redness around the top of the thumb.
I have started longer practice sessions, however, I don't belive that this is a cause. I hold the horn with the thumb rest half way over the very begining of my thumb nail.
I am using the same set up, I am also using a standard thumb rest cushion.
Has anyone else encountered this problem, and does anyone know of a solution?
1st Armored Division Band
Clarinetist
Dixie Band
Woodwind Quintet
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-03-28 23:56
Without actually watching you play it is difficult to analyze the cause of this problem but I would suggest looking into a neck strap to take the pressure off of the thumb, at least when it begins to hurt. Many good players use them. Our second player in the BSO uses one, Morales uses one and the list goes one. Just make sure the strap you get has elastic so it gives a little. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457
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Author: Brenda ★2017
Date: 2008-03-29 16:50
Here's a stab in the dark.... the cuticle at the base of the nail got pushed a little too far in by whatever, then it has either irritation or a minor infection, then the pressure of the clarinet's weight aggravates it.
In any case a neck strap could help until your body figures out how to fix itself.
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Author: D
Date: 2008-03-29 20:37
Have you tried taking the cushion off, washing it thoroughly with soap and putting it back on upside down? Sounds daft, but if you are somewhere hot, and playing more than normal your sweat could be reacting with the rubber and causing irritation.
My sweat is brilliant, I think I should sell it to safe crackers. My student clarinet barely has any plating left on it and I am doing a pretty good job getting through the silver plate on my good ones. I'm sure if I was somewhere warmer I would eat through the wood from the back too - there is already a large pale patch where the finish is corroding.......any way, it's a subject on my mind, and I wondered if that might part of your problem too. You could try putting the thumb from a clean cotton glove over it when you play if it does turn out to be a rubber irritation.
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Author: JJAlbrecht
Date: 2008-03-29 22:00
A cheap answer might be the Ridenour thumb saddle. Costs about 12 bucks.
Jeff
“Everyone discovers their own way of destroying themselves, and some people choose the clarinet.” Kalman Opperman, 1919-2010
"A drummer is a musician's best friend."
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Author: ken
Date: 2008-03-29 23:12
I am a retired U.S Air Force Bandsman (1978 - 2002); thank you for your service.
Here is the right thumb / thumbrest and hands position method I use and teach. The late (great) Porter Eidam taught me this system, originally conceived by Elsa Verdehr.
Concept:
Incorrect thumbrest position produces muscular strain that restricts agility when physically supporting the horn. In relation, too firm a hand posture slows finger dexterity and technique. Over time, tendons stretch from tension and fatigue and totally break down. As well, it impedes hand and wrist movement that emanate from fingertip to shoulder blade and cause carpal tunnel wrist disorder, forms of tendonitis, bursitis, and rotator cuff problems. The condition can be severely debilitating; I have had students playing 10 to 20 years using death grips as if they were in a wrestling match.
One solution is angling the left and right hand positions upward to a 10 and 2 o'clock position. This decreases muscular strain yet increases dexterity and technical accuracy. Next, inwardly curving the fingers targets and maximizes the "lightening zone" between the fingertips and 2nd set of knuckles … where the "real" technique lives. More good news; making these minor adjustments can advance brain versus finger coordination, and more efficiently balance thumb on thumbrest weight distribution plus lighten workload. Finally, combining angled hands, curved fingers with a “high and left” thumb position eliminates most extraneous movement and channels energy through the fingertips, away from the hands, wrist, arms and upper body.
Method Routine:
I recommend initially applying these techniques exactly as given in a daily warm-up routine, (i.e., long tones, scales, chords, chromatics, tremolos and slow etudes) then gradually incorporating into regular playing sessions. To hasten memory reflex, I urge consciously focusing on relaxing the touch while keeping the wrists and hands properly angled, fingers and fingertips pliable and right thumb hugging the bore.
1) Sit in an upright but comfortable playing position; back straight sitting on the edge of the chair and feet flat on the floor.
2) Scrunch your shoulders a few times to get the kinks out then take two or three deep breaths and fully exhale. Resume normal breathing.
3) Grasp the barrel with the “left” hand and rest the bell on top and behind the “right” kneecap.
4) Tilt the horn back approximate to the chin.
5) Lift the right arm upward bending at the elbow and keep it perpendicular to the horn or at a height natural to your playing position.
6) Maintaining the elbow at a 90-degree angle let the right hand hang limp at the wrist, down to the fingertips.
7) Give your hand two or three good shakes. (Notice the right hand forefinger and thumb takes the shape of a squashed, backwards “C”). Maintain limp wrist.
8) Open the right hand about 1 1-1/2 inches and slightly cup inward all four fingers "only" at the second knuckle. (Notice the shape of the right hand is a more pronounced backwards “C”). Maintain limp wrist.
9) Slowly raise the wrist so it is parallel to the arm and at a 45-degree angle to the horn (thumb pointed at 10 o’clock to the bore).
10) Position the right hand directly behind the thumbrest and slowly pull the horn ”into" the right hand as if slipping on a glove.
11) Position the right thumb knuckle at the “top and inside left” corner of the thumbrest and barely touching the bore (Knuckle gently resting against the bore but not applying pressure or squeezing for support).
12) Maintaining position, make minor adjustments to the right hand and thumb to correctly position fingertips and ensure they are covered and centered over tone holes. (Achieve an "in the pocket" feel comfortable but still functional).
13) Rest the right pinky on top and "between" the Ab/F nat/C nat/Eb right/top cluster keys (not on one or the other) still ensuring the fingertips are in a cupped position.
14) Bring the horn up into a normal playing position.
15) Bring up the left hand and correctly position the fingertips so they are covered and centered over upper joint tone holes.
16) Adjust the left hand into playing position slightly tilting it upward at a 10 o'clock angle. Left hand position increases technique on teardrop keys and improve thumb hole accuracy, coverage and dexterity.
17) Duplicate this look and feel each time you set your hands, fingers and right thumb on thumbrest.
Exercises:
#1: Acquire a floor-sized mirror and sit directly before it (or use a pocket mirror strategically placed). Use a metronome (set to 1/4=80). Play 1/4 notes (tongued or slurred) a 5th of F major scale from low F natural to C natural and back down. Repeat X5. Repeat using left hand playing a 5th of a C major scale, C natural to open G natural and back down. After mastering technique at the slower tempo progressively increase four metronome clicks per pass up to 1/4=144.
#2: Play chromatically tongued or slurred, (1/4=80) from right side chalumeau F# to C natural using both middle / forked fingerings (repeat method as in exercise 1).
#3: Train and strengthen pinkie with right side (only) tremolos slow to fast. Alternate combinations; chalumeau E natural to G natural to F natural to G natural to F# to G natural to Ab to G natural etc; rotate patterns, clockwise, and counter clockwise in an "X" pattern.
v/r Ken
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-03-30 02:00
I use the Kooiman. I don't have any callous on my thumb which is really special for a clarinet player.:)
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Author: BobD
Date: 2008-03-30 04:04
I think Brenda has the right idea. The fingernail is probably not supposed to be so mistreated. I myself have never supported the horn with my thumb nail.
Bob Draznik
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Author: Bob Phillips
Date: 2008-03-30 15:51
Using the BG elastic clarinet neck strap for several months "cured" my forearm and wrist pain. I'm happy with it --but anticipate the need for a compromise when (ever) I get my A clarinet because it takes a bit of time to disconnect the strap hook.
The elastic has the advantage of "preferring" to hold the clarinet where you set it, but allows you to pull it out of your mouth without having to raise your head. Set the strap to keep the mouthpiece engaged where you want it to be.
It is easy to allow the strap to pull the horn closer to your body, ruining your embouchure.
For $28 or so, try one.
Bob Phillips
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Author: C2thew
Date: 2008-03-31 03:47
kooiman thumbrest or bg neck strap are excellent suggestions for eliminating thumb pain
Our inventions are wont to be pretty toys, which distract our attention from serious things. they are but improved means to an unimproved end, an end which was already but too easy to arrive as railroads lead to Boston to New York
-Walden; Henry Thoreau
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-07-10 21:24
I'm reviving this thread because I found a new instrument support in the latest IDRS Journal.
The W.R.I.S.T. support attaches to a music stand or floor stand and hooks into the bottom of the bell http://www.chicagoreedcompany.com/wrist.html. On their site, Larry Combs says it's a good idea (but doesn't use it). It's also rather expensive.
To review, other supports include the fhred, which is a rod that attaches to the thumb rest and transfers the entire weight of the instrument to the seat of your chair or a special belt http://www.quodlibet.com/FhredGen.php. Their brochure is at http://www.quodlibet.com/Brochure.pdf. I've tried it and thought it would take some getting used to. The chair rod is OK, but the belt (used to play while standing) seemed unstable and hard to control. They also make more elaborate supports that hold the instrument in playing position with no effort from you.
There's also the MUTS (Michael's Ultimate Thumb Saver), from Michael Benthin, 24 Poor Farm Road, Pennington, NJ 08534, 609-737-3867. He has no website, but if you email him at muts@verizon.net, he'll send a description and photos. It's similar to the fhred, but less expensive, and perhaps not as sturdy. On the other hand, he makes each one to fit your instrument and height. See http://test.woodwind.org/Databases/Klarinet/2001/04/000665.txt.
Steve Fox makes a belly pad for use with his basset A clarinet. I tried it and thought it was uncomfortable, but it certainly reduces strain http://www.sfoxclarinets.com/Accessories.html.
Ken Shaw
Post Edited (2012-02-20 11:52)
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Author: autumnsilence
Date: 2008-07-12 02:28
i play the clarinet and i also get this problem after playing for a while (expecially without any sort of cushion or pad on the thumb rest.) it is just from having something pushing against your thumb for quite some time and it will go away soon.
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Author: janlynn
Date: 2008-07-12 04:00
thanks for the link ken. I am having some quite concerning problems with my wrist/thumb/hand. its getting so bad i keep thinking i may have to stop playing. I dont know what I would do if it ever came to that. And since I'm a gadget person, it looks like i have something new to try.
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-12-02 12:15
Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in this thread.
I feel that the POSITION of the thumb rest plays a critical role in fatigue. When the thumb rest is placed closer to the top the the bottom joint (many of you speak of "natural finger position") then there is a tendency for the right index finger to hover over the SECOND to the last side key. So..... to reach the LOWEST sidekey one needs to compensate somehow. HOW? My guess is that the right thumb then needs to strain to make space for your index finger to play clarion Bb and chalameau Eb (which we play a lot!).
I assert that this leads to many of us unecessarily straining our hands because I had gone down this very path which ultimately led to the use of the big Kooiman Thumbrest.............. a great product mind you. However, once I placed my thumbrest substantially lower (for me, in line with the top of the hole for the second finger) I never had to use ANY accessories for holding up the horn and never again had any strain/pain issues.
....................Paul Aviles
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Author: kdk ★2017
Date: 2009-12-02 13:14
FWIW, most string method books that I've looked at suggest placing a beginning cellist's left thumb on the back of the cello's neck directly behind the 2nd finger. Certainly you can look down the cello section of any orchestra, major or not, and see many different thumb positions among the already accomplished players there. The left hand position for a cellist is more or less analogous to the right hand of a clarinetist.
Something I notice is that clarinetists seem not to talk about pain in the left hand, where the placement of the thumb could conceivably also cause strain. This is a moot issue because the thumb has to cover a hole that's fixed by the manufacturer's design. Still, I wonder why left hand pain doesn't seem to be the problem that right hand pain is if the hand position is the main issue. The difference of course is that the right hand also bears much of the instrument's weight.
I also suspect a player's best placement of the thumb rest depends on the layout of the keys - particularly the right hand lever keys. On my Selmer 10Gs the lever keys are angled upward. On my 1950s Buffet clarinet, those keys are straight. I don't know if that angled keywork on my 10Gs was unique - I've never really paid attention until recently. But I can imagine that the different reach resulting from the different angles of the lever keys might affect where the thumb rest needs to be.
Karl
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2009-12-03 16:55
That's funny, I've never seen a cellist hold up his instrument with his right thumb.
Related in a VERY tangential way, I liked the Tony Pay comment that a cello playing friend of his took one very expensive lesson with a prominent cellist only to take out of it that she was applying too much pressure with her left thumb as opposed to using it more as a guide. This did NOT result in carpal tunnel for her, only less amazing technique.
But cellists have their problems too.
...............Paul Aviles
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