 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: MaDxClArInAtOr
Date: 2008-07-06 00:36
I've been practicing a lot lately, and I've been very happy with the sound I'm getting.
After one day off (because I couldn't fit in any practice time), it feels like I'm back to square one, and I found that almost all of my reeds are warped. Those that weren't warped (including my best reed) produce a sound that's lifeless and brittle. Dynamic contrast is completely out the window.
I've tried trimming a few reeds and adjusting them, but I'm still unable to reproduce the sound I had two days ago.
Does warping mark the end of a reed's life-span, or is there hope in reviving it?
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Author: glin
Date: 2008-07-06 01:06
Warping is common. It doesn't mean you have to throw out the reed. Lightly sand just the bottom of the heel so that the heel is straight and not warped.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-07-06 02:01
I don't feel that a warped reed can be unwarped very well. Too much wood to remove to get it really flat. I throw it away when warpage occurs. But it almost never does anymore.
Remember that you can just wet your reeds daily to keep them from drying out.
The 'reedmate' reed holder or a similarly designed holder can also help a lot.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-07-06 02:53
I will assuming the warping you are talking about is at the tip- a visiable wiggle?
Usually, wetting the entire reed for about 5-10 minutes will solve that. Put it in a glass of water while you warm up on another reed.
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-07-06 02:56
Flat on a piece of glass a reed which is warped will rock back and forth when pressed on either side (flat side down).
The tip being wavy has nothing to do with warpage as it can easily be ironed with the thumb after being wet. Often just wetting the reed removes that.
Warping occurs when the sides which are not as thick dry before the center of the reed does and thus they curl.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-07-06 03:17
If we are talking about warpage of the back of the reed, rather than the tip (which can be dealt with by wetting, as mentioned above), I find that using a flat bastard file works well. I only apply pressure over the bark end of the reed, so as not to take wood off of the vamp end. It will greatly improve the seal of the reed on the mouthpiece and increase resonance and response.
Flattening warped reeds, balancing them, adjusting the tips, etc, is just part of the process of working on a reed. It is no different than the various processes that oboists or bassoonists do. I regularly need to take warp out of reeds. Many are good playable reeds.
Reed cases which control humidity (such as the reed mate, the reed machine reed case) are a big help. They work well to maintain reeds and minimize warpage. The reeds still do warp some, especially in the dry months, although not as much as in other style cases.
Post Edited (2008-07-06 12:19)
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Author: marshall
Date: 2008-07-06 06:22
In my (non-professional) experience, I've found that once a reed warps, it's exceptionally hard, if not impossible, to make it into a good reed. You could get it to a point where it could be a practice reed, but I'd never attend a rehersal or (God forbid) perform on a reed that is, or at some point has been, warped.
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Author: DougR
Date: 2008-07-06 12:55
I'd like to echo Marshall's post. I spent a lot of time with Marca reeds at one point trying to 'carpenter' them to work on my bass clarinet, because when they lay flat and are adjusted correctly, they're fabulous.
But while a No. 10 Mill Bastard file is a great tool to even out minor convexity on a reed, if you can make it rock back and forth (side-to-side) on a flat piece of glass, your reed is just plain done, man, done. You can get it to play, for a time, by soaking it in water, but I've found that as the reed dries out on the mouthpiece, the warpage returns. And no amount of woodworking (in my experience at least) will make it play, and the time wasted could be far more usefully focused on other things.
I don't mean to be a gloomy-gus about this, and Ed's tips for preventing/minimizing warpage are definitely good. But I've had the precise experience you've outlined--picking up an ace reed from a couple days back and finding it's warped and unusable--and I've concluded it's nature's way of telling me to start breaking in some fresh reeds.
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Author: Desert Dweller
Date: 2008-07-06 15:20
Speaking as one who lives in the desert, warped reeds are a part of life.
However, I have found that keeping my reeds in "reed guards" and then storing them in the "Rico Reed Vitalizer" has greatly reduced the amount of warpage I experience--even when they sit unplayed for a period of time. The Reed Vitalizer system uses a humidity pack which is available in three different humidity levels. You'll have to experiment with which one works best for your climate, but I like the 73% level for the high desert area I live in.
The second thing that I have found, is that when a reed starts to go bad, the first thing I check is for warpage. If the warpage is not severe, I have had good luck sanding the heel and returning it to the Reed Vitalizer. But I agree with my colleagues. If the warpage is severe, the reed is a loss.
Hope this helps!
Desert Dweller
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-07-06 15:30
That's what myself and my students use and they work wonderfully.
Being an Artist for them, I didn't want to mention it, but yup, they work really well. Just make sure to change the vitalizer packet when they dry up (60 days aprox) and never use the free ones that come with the Reserve Reeds as they are for shipping only - don't work at all as vitalizers (personally I think that they are dummy packets as they never dry out!).
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-07-06 16:00
Prevent Reed Warping
I know I’ve posted this before but I’ll do it again. My reeds never warp, I repeat, they never warp. I know many people will disagree with me but it’s worked for me ever since I’ve been doing this for well over twenty years now.
First, I seal the bottom of my reeds the first or second day of break in.
Second, I never ever let the bottom half of the reed at the bark get wet, that way the bottom half, the strong part, never goes wet to dry so it prevents the top half from warping.
Third, I only wet the vamp part of the reed for a few seconds, 3-5 at most. I press the tip with my thumb against the mouthpiece to flatten the tip. I use a film canister to wet my reed so only the vamp portion gets wet.
Fourth, I always use a Reed Vitalizer, #58. I never let my reeds sit out in the opened air, never. As soon as I choose my reed they go back into my Vitalizer bag, or freezer bag, and I seal it tight, especially in the winter months when it’s dry, but always.
Fifth, during my break in period, about a week, I always let my reeds sit flat side up so the reeds dry evenly. A reed will warp at the point it stays wet so it’s best to let the air dry it evenly. I make sure there is no extra moisture on the reed when I place it in my reed case.
By the way, since I always keep my Vitalizer bag sealed, my packets last me for over six months easily. Before those were available I kept my reeds in my clarinet case with several dampits in clarinet case and would always keep the case closed. Before dampits I used a sponge in a case with holes in it. My reeds play great and very stable through the seasons. You don’t have to soak a reed in order to play it. The secret is to make your adjustments to the reed in the same condition you are going to play it. If you soak it first for too long, especially the bark half, you need to keep it soaked to keep it stable because the lower half will be drying out while your playing making the reed change and likely later warp. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 (Listen to a little Mozart, live recording on a non warped reed)
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-07-06 16:23
Ed, I've tried to listen to your page but the track only downloads 711k out of 87.2 megs and then stops, and times out after a couple of minutes.
Could you have Peabody check into that? Tried it on several different days and today but same problem. The Wind Ensemble podcast page didn't download either so there maybe is a problem more widespread than just your page.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: MaDxClArInAtOr
Date: 2008-07-06 17:48
Success! I've managed to heal a few reeds already, and I'm definitely going to look into the Reed Vitalizer. Thank you all for your help!
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-07-06 21:25
Dave, thanks for letting me know. I did just play it on Safari and it played through just fine, that guy sounds pretty good. When I tried it on AOL it won't even play, but that's AOL. See if it's a problem with your browser but I will report it to the Peadody tech department. Let me know if you solve the problem on your end. Thanks, Eddie
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-07-06 21:48
I just played it on Firefox too and it worked fine but I did report it to Peabody. I don't know why I can play it on two browsers and you can't. I'm using a Mac, could that be it because it's a mystery to me? I don't understand any of this tech stuff. I'm lucky I can do a post. Eddie
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-07-07 03:02
My previous question was directed toward MadXlcar....How did you determine your reeds were warped?
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: MaDxClArInAtOr
Date: 2008-07-07 11:40
Arnoldstang wrote:
> My previous question was directed toward MadXlcar....How did
> you determine your reeds were warped?
>
As David Blumberg suggested, "Flat on a piece of glass a reed which is warped will rock back and forth when pressed on either side (flat side down)."
A few of my reeds were curled up at the sides (as described above), but most were extremely wavy at the tip.
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-07-07 14:06
The best way to determine if a reed is warped is to test it for leakage. If it’s not leaking there is no problem. With the reed in place, cover the bottom of the MP with your hand and suck the air out of the mouthpiece. If it does not seal the tip of the reed will not close off because you are trying to create a vacuum by sucking the air out of the chamber. It should close off and then pop opened in a second or more. If you can’t create the vacuum then your reed is not sealing because it is warped. That creates all types of problems, delayed attacks, squeaks etc. Some times raising the ligature higher on the reed and tightening it sometimes stops the leak, if the reed is not too warped. It works especially well with a material ligatures rather than a metal ones because they don’t choke off the vibration as much. Even though I claim correctly, that my reeds never warp, see above post, that refers to my clarinet reeds, my bass reeds, being much bigger, do occasionally warp and that often solves the problem, at least temporarily. ESP www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 (Listen to a little Mozart, live recording)
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Author: Arnoldstang
Date: 2008-07-08 04:57
"most were extremely wavy at the tip"......this is pretty normal and not a problem. Wet the reed more....flatten it on the mouthpiece table with your thumb or just play it in until it's flat. The only problem I've encountered with the "wave" is that the reed can split. It does sound like you could use the reed vitalizer as it would stop the huge fluctuation in humidity that can cause the tip to be wavy,
Freelance woodwind performer
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Author: alanporter
Date: 2008-07-09 01:27
The clarinet repair book called "The Clarinet Revealed" by Ernest Ferron, suggests that soaking reeds in warm salty water will prevent warping.
Has anyone tried it ?
tiaroa@shaw.ca
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