 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: marba
Date: 2008-07-03 07:15
Hi fellow boarders,
Firstly thank you to all those who replied to my recent post on the return to the clarinet after 15 years.
I've been advised to upgrade my mouthpiece and check the clarinet for leaks etc. My question is should I also replace the
ligature as I will be using the original off my B12? or would this only provide minimum gain to tone only?
If an upgrade is recommended please advise on which type/brand I should buy.
Many thanks again.
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-07-03 10:22
Change one thing at a time. Otherwise you will never know where the problems lie. There is little difference to the listener between one ligature and another, frankly. I mislaid mine recently, but managed to perform successfully with a rubber band. Others swear by shoe-laces. See how the new mouthpiece works, and then later decide if you need a new ligature.
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2008-07-03 12:24
The ligature might make a good mouthpiece better, but it should not make a good mouthpiece worse, or a bad mouthpiece good!
So I would agree to just change the mouthpiece first so you can make a true comparison with what you are used to.
But the main reason to pitch in is to remind you that when you try a new mouthpiece, always put a new reed on it, not one you have been using with another mouthpiece for any length of time.
I think it is ok (and probably important to, for comparison reasons) to use the same new reed for a selection of new mouthpieces when trying them out for purchase.
Chris
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-07-03 14:53
I kinda sorta am in the camp of getting a good starter ligature. That is, something that is easy to use and has a good reputation.
I would recommend the Rovner Light, usually only about $15 US dollars. I still alternate with one quite a bit and I have more ligatures than I'd admit.
Couple of things to consider, the inverted models usually are better for reed resonance, such as the Rovner Light. Also, the single screw models are easier to put on and take off (also automatically give you even pressure across the ligatures binding surface) such as the Rovner Light.
No reason to spend exorbitant amounts on a ligature, but the thin metal jobbies that have the screws on the bottom are rather passe and at worst, they can actuallly come beween you and a good sound.
............Paul Aviles
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-07-03 15:07
Attachment: ligature.jpg (11k)
Paul Aviles wrote:
> No reason to spend exorbitant amounts on a ligature, but the
> thin metal jobbies that have the screws on the bottom are
> rather passe and at worst, they can actuallly come beween you
> and a good sound.
Of course, every argument has its exception ![[wink]](http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/smileys/smilie3.gif) ...GBK
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-07-03 15:21
GBK,
So you are saying that the cheap, thin metal ligatures that gauge into the backs of your reeds has an upside?
.........Paul Aviles
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Author: GBK
Date: 2008-07-03 15:26
Paul Aviles wrote:
> GBK,
>
> So you are saying that the cheap, thin metal ligatures that
> gauge into the backs of your reeds has an upside?
Click on the attachment in the previous post ...GBK
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Author: pewd
Date: 2008-07-03 17:23
i 2nd paul a's post, but i prefer the rovner 'dark'.
metal ones can bend. if you get a rovner (dark or light), you at least know the reed is held on properly ; you can't bend or damage a rovner.
get a good ligature, and remove that issue from your restart process.
- Paul Dods
Dallas, Texas
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-07-03 19:31
beejay wrote,
>>Change one thing at a time. Otherwise you will never know where the problems lie. >>
Amen to that.
>>There is little difference to the listener between one ligature and another, frankly. I mislaid mine recently, but managed to perform successfully with a rubber band. Others swear by shoe-laces.>>
Rubber band! Brilliant! Never occurred to me! I'll bet those wide rubber bands that grocery stores in the USA use around bunches of asparagus would work well.
I generally use a cheap, 2-screw lligature, but for antique clarinets, often I can't find a commercial ligature that fits the mouthpiece. For those, I like double-sided Velcro, the type where the back sticks to the front, so that you can wrap one piece around to just the right tightness. I bought a roll of black (hardware stores sell it) so that it's inconspicuous. But for a jazz jam, I think a shoelace or a nice red or purple rubber band would supply just the right touch of "snobs can go take a jump--take a running jump."
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
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Author: sbrodt54
Date: 2008-07-03 23:53
Marba,
I agree with Beejay and Chris J, start with just the mouthpiece first and then a new ligature when you feel you’re comfortable with the new piece. There are quite a number of mouthpieces out there to try so don’t just try one and go home, play as many as you can get your hands on.
You will notice a huge difference between the way different ligatures work on your new mouthpiece too, the fabric/material they are made out of and the mass of each ligature will change your tone and response a great deal. The ligature should be the final touch or icing on the cake to your new mouthpiece, it can warm up your tone or give you a bit more brilliance depending on which you may want.
I have been using one of those flimsy metal ones for about 10 years and I choose it because of the tonal balance it gave me. I started playing with a new duet partner and I found my tone didn’t match her’s very well so I tried three ligatures (Charles Bay, BG Revelation and Rovner) to see if I could adjust my tone to be more complimentary to her’s. All of them were fine, the Rovner was too dark and the BG was too bright, the Bay was just right and very big! I believe that the low mass of the Bay allowed the reed to vibrate more freely and that gave me a bigger sound, there were more overtones and more colors to my tone and I liked that.
It’s true that one of these flimsy metal ones can be destroyed by trying to change from Bb to A by taking the mouthpiece off of one and trying to get it onto the other in less than 4 measures but I have been successful so far.
Chris J, if you’re still reading this thread, could you elaborate on that statement about only using a new reed to test your new mouthpieces? I have heard that before but I’m not sure why. I recently got to test a “Retro” Gennusa from Ben Redwine and it was terrific! I played it with vandoren v12s, traditionals, R Lepic 56s, black masters, and about 5 other styles of reed I have in my practice area. I seemed to have the same results with the new reed that I did with my old reeds so I’m curious about the “only new reeds for testing thing.”
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-07-04 03:06
Of course get your clarinet checked for leaks first and then check out several quality mouthpieces. I’m a big advocate of a good ligature and a very big fan of the Rovners but I must say that the difference a good ligature makes is significantly less then a good mouthpiece. Once you’re comfortable with a new mouthpiece – reed combination then you will fine that a ligature can make a difference in response, feel and quality. ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 (Listen to a little Mozart, live recording)
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Author: graham
Date: 2008-07-04 07:26
I wonder whether the thin metal ligatures with the two screws of yersteryear were the same as those of today. Drucker was probably playing on the best of that breed, as did so many of the top players (Brymer, de Peyer, Marcellus etc). But perhaps now that the best ligatures are not designed like that, the modern "throw away" ligatures that look like the old ones are not actually the same. I noticed this one time when trying a newer metal 2 pin ligature. It was not too good. However, having tried several ligature types (Vandoren, Rovner, another I cannot remember) I returned to an old Boosey metal ligature because for me it is the best.
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Author: Chris J
Date: 2008-07-04 12:14
sbrodt54
Re using a new reed.
I think this is to do with the possibility of the reed taking on imperfections of the table during use. I had heard it before, but it was reinforced with information that Ralph Morgan used to ship with his mouthpieces.
I guess the act of breaking in a reed might be more than just the effect on the reed, but also the reed settling to the table. If that were the case, then if would be unfair to the new mouthpiece to try it with a reed that has settled to a previous mouthpiece.
But that might all be rubbish, so would be interested to hear what the experts might say...
Chris
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Author: Paul Aviles
Date: 2008-07-04 13:47
The reed thing is another controversial stance for me........what else is new.
For me, the reed is the foundation of the sound and therefore, one (that is, I) can't even begin to know what a mouthpiece is doing or not doing if I am placing a brand new reed upon it of which I know nothing.
Of course there is the theory of the reed settling in to the lay of a given mouthpiece which is probably accurate to some extent, BUT one has to start somewhere, and I for one would rather not completely start from scratch when an expensive mouthpiece purchase is at stake.
Didn't we start all this by saying we should only change one point in the system at a time???
............Paul Aviles
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-07-04 20:16
As Ed said, mouthpieces make a bigger difference. I am not a fan of the Rovners as others are. I prefer the Bonades. Those can be inconsistent. For students, I might suggest the Luyben, as they are plastic, so they are inexpensive, work well and hold up well.
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Author: Lelia Loban ★2017
Date: 2008-07-05 15:11
>>I wonder whether the thin metal ligatures with the two screws of yersteryear were the same as those of today.>>
I've bought quite a few old clarinets with old mouthpieces, some dating back to the 1890s. Although I don't have a two-screw ligature that I think is original on any clarinet dating before 1921, that old ligature and several from the 1930s do look pretty much the same as modern ones. The difference is that they were made to fit mouthpieces whose standards have changed. Modern commercial mouthpieces are just enough different so that it's hard to get a modern 2-screw lig to fit properly on some old mouthpieces. When I fnd an old ligature with an old clarinet mouthpiece, I keep them together unless one or the other is irreparably trashed. Even if I prefer to use Velcro on some of those mouthpieces, I still keep the old ligature, because, once I toss it or sell it, I wouldn't be able to change my mind.
Lelia
http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/Lelia_Loban
To hear the audio, click on the "Scorch Plug-In" box above the score.
Post Edited (2008-07-05 15:11)
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-07-05 15:30
Please explain what a "mouthpiece upgrade" is.
a. is it better?
a1. If yes, in what way?
b. Does it mean "different"?
b1. In what way?
What is a "ligature upgrade'?
a. is it better"
a1. In what way?
One would think that a comprehensive response (s) must be made to oneself prior to making the "upgrade". If one cannot, then obviously it is not necessary, unless of course. one is responding to spurious advertising whether by word-of-mouth or the paid variety. "Upgrade" and/or "stepup" cannot be explained or defined because quality is undefined or explained.
Sherman Friedland
Post Edited (2008-07-05 15:34)
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2008-07-06 21:54
I always advise returning players or beginners to get a Rovner ligature. They're a big improvement over the stock ligs that come with the B-12.
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