 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: ebclariflute
Date: 2008-06-27 17:39
I play a Leblanc Sonata at college in jazz and concert band. I love the performance in concert band, but in the 17-piece jazz band I feel muted, stiff, and drowned out. I can't afford a new instrument, and I'm not sure I'd want one anyway. I am looking instead to replace my mouthpiece, reeds, barrel, or ligature. Right now I'm using:
1. a hard rubber Oehler brand mouthpiece. (Yes I do know that it's weird to use a German mouthpiece with a French clarinet.) I also own a Vandoren B45, which I use on my marching clarinet, but could possibly substitute back.
2. a Luyben ligature.
3. the standard barrel that came with the used Sonata.
4. Vandoren traditional reeds.
I know that much of my equipment isn't suited to jazz and would like some advice on how to fix this problem on a college student's budget. Thanks in advance!
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-06-27 18:06
Well, the fastest fix would probably be to grab a wider open mouthpiece. Vandy 5JB are typical for easy-fast attempts. Plus use a soft reed with the more open mouthpiece. I use a 5JB with 2s for Bulgarian-style stuff and it can blast. Takes a lot of control though!
Are you in Minneapolis, as your ISP suggests? If so, email me! (My email is visible if you click on my name.)
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Author: redwine
Date: 2008-06-28 06:10
Hello,
It's my opinion that you should play the same setup for whatever you do. There may be others that disagree, and I'm not saying they are wrong, only that is what I believe. It is difficult to project through a full jazz band, but, what a lot of people don't realize, the old guys (Artie Shaw, Woody Herman, and more, I'm sure) were originally sax players who switched to clarinet primarily to cut through the band!!! You would be amazed if you listen to a recording of the band with you playing clarinet. If you can project like you should for a symphony orchestra, you can probably be heard quite well through the jazz band. Of course, I constantly ask everyone in a large ensemble to play softer (I'm sure I really annoy everyone) and there is also the option of a microphone (I can't believe I just typed that, as I hate amplification of any instrument, except for guitar, for sound reasons). It is true that a more wide open mouthpiece (like your B45) will allow for more projection, although your Oehler mouthpiece may project as well because of the difference in design. I've said it before on this forum, my belief is that the clarinet largely fell out of favor as a jazz instrument because players (except for the best ones) tended to play with a bad sound, thinking that was what jazz was. If you listen to all of the greats, they had classicalish sounds compared to the classical players of their time. If you haven't done it, do record yourself from the audience's perspective with the band and see if you still have the same perception of being drowned out. Best of luck.
Ben Redwine, DMA
owner, RJ Music Group
Assistant Professor, The Catholic University of America
Selmer Paris artist
www.rjmusicgroup.com
www.redwinejazz.com
www.reedwizard.com
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2008-06-28 13:15
I'm not sure why it is that some folks immediate think that one needs a more open tip in order to play jazz. Not so! I'm primarily a jazz player and doubler. I've done quite a bit of experimentation over the years in trying different mouthpiece facings and matching them to my particular clarinets, my tonal conception, and me as a player. Over the past 6 years I progressively went from using a 1.28 mm piece down to my current 1.09 mm. I've found on both clarinet and saxophone that I do not need a large tip opening in order to have a big, vibrant, projecting sound. Simply put, there is much more to a mouthpiece than just the tip size which contributes to a big sound and projection. For example, when I first tried a Walter Grabner K14 mouthpiece the Kaspar-style design came as a revelation. It was EXACTLY the quality of sound I had worked toward for many years. And, I was amazed at its amount of projection. Yet, it's 1.09 MM tip opening was smaller than other clarinet mouthpieces I had used. Therefore, it became clear to me that tip size does not have to equate to a big sound.
Roger
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Author: allencole
Date: 2008-06-28 16:13
I've had good results on both sides of the fence with a medium Portnoy. I have to say, though, that I did see a lot of improvement going from #5 to #4 reeds.
The only caveat is that I do tend to be on the bright side, and have to be a little careful in the band/orchestra/chamber music arena. Note Katrina's warning about blowing a 5JB with #2's. You really do have to be reliable in terms of support.
However, I did manage to play combo gigs while in college on my close mpc and #5 reeds. One question to ask yourself--do you practice the instrument enough in that genre, and do you listen to the instrument enough in that genre? Both will lead you forward with minimal physical changes.
Allen Cole
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Author: Katrina
Date: 2008-06-28 21:20
IMO, glisses/smears are easier with a more open mp and soft reed combo. Of course you need a great sound no matter what setup you've got. I can smear much better with my JB & #2 Vandy blue-boxes than with my ol' Borbeck 13 and #3.25 Legeres. Not saying I can't smear on the more closed setup but it's easier on the open one. And it IS more difficult to get the "right" sound on the Borbeck (for me) to play the wedding band stuff from Bulgaria. I still don't have it right on the JB, but it's closer and easier there.
Of course you also need to "support" the crap outta the air and KNOW in your head what sound you want too.
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Author: Tom Puwalski
Date: 2008-06-29 04:20
They are called Microphones guys! Buy one and use it. Most jazz groups are playing to damn loud anyway. I use a zinner with basically an M15 facing on it. I use it on everything classical, klezmer, Dixieland. Don't get sucked into that wide open thing on saxophone either. I play a close long moutpiece on alto and it sounds very much in that Meyer 5 vain except much easier to play.
Tom Puwalski I'll be at the Backun Both in Kansas stop by and say hi!
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Author: beejay
Date: 2008-06-29 09:19
Every choice of mouthpiece is personal, but I use a Charles Bay mouthpiece for classical work and an Otto Link "Tone Edge" for jazz. I don't think there is great deal of difference in the sound, but with the Otto Link, I find it easier to "bend" notes. I use No3. VD Rue Lepic 56 reeds on both mouthpieces.
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Author: Roger Aldridge
Date: 2008-06-29 16:54
I'm in complete agreement with "whatever works for you". That said, my mouthpiece path of discovery on clarinet and saxophone seems to be similar to Tom's. I tried open tip "jazz clarinet" mouthpieces in the past and did not like the quality of sound I got with them. As I mentioned previously, I moved progressively downward in tip openings until I got to the Grabner K14 (1.09 mm) and found it gives me everything I've looked for in a clarinet mouthpiece. Similar to Tom, I use this one mouthpiece for all of my clarinet work.
I also agree with Tom about saxophone mouthpieces. I, personally, don't think that large tip mouthpieces are wrong. There are plenty of top-level players who use them. However, my experiments (trial & error) led me in the opposite direction. Rather than focusing on a large tip opening, I've come to focus on a big, round chamber and a facing that has a good balance between power and control. I settled on a Morgan 6C. It's tip size on alto is .075 and .090 on tenor. I consider this to be middle-of-the-road.
My performance 6C tenor piece was recently adjusted by Eric Greiffenhagen (one of the mouthpiece guys trained by Ralph Morgan). I asked him to see if he could adjust the mouthpiece so it would have comparable tonal and projection qualities on saxophone as a Kaspar-style mouthpiece does on clarinet. Erik did a fantastic job on the mouthpiece and it gives me exactly what I was looking for. This .090 mouthpiece holds its ground in a big band with other players using more open jazz pieces and it works equally well in a classical saxophone quartet or symphonic wind ensemble. I've even used it in a friend's R&B band. It's dark fat sound comes as a surprise to those who are used to a bright and edgy saxophone sound. That always gives me a chuckle! ha ha ha
Roger
Post Edited (2008-06-29 17:02)
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Author: allencole
Date: 2008-06-29 17:46
Now that someone mentions Bay, I've heard some great wide-open legit sounds on these that would translate well to jazz.
Interesting on the tenor mpc's. I prefer a wide-open tip myself, but some colleagues have recently been moving in the opposite direction--particularly where metal mouthpieces are involved.
Allen Cole
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