 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: Firebird
Date: 2008-06-17 12:32
Today, when I received an instrument for servicing, and I noticed that the tension of the C#/F# key was too light. So I dismantled the keys and to my horror, the spring on the key broke into 2 parts, with 1 section inside the spring holder, nothing to grip on, no way to pull it out. I've tried to tap it out using needles, or even needle springs, but nothing seemed to work.
Anyone has any other bright solutions to remove the remnant of the spring?
Chan
Post Edited (2008-06-17 12:44)
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Author: blazian
Date: 2008-06-17 14:12
I learned the hard way that the spring removing pliers are just about the only way to get e broken spring out. I actually broke a post off before I got mine.
- Martin
Post Edited (2008-06-17 14:15)
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Author: Caroline Smale
Date: 2008-06-17 16:26
Depending on how firmly the stub is stuck you may need to remove the pillar from the instrument and drive stub out with a special needle punch.
I find the Feree's flute pinning tool good for holding and aligning the punches but ended up making several of my own punches to fit specific problems. I used very short lengths of steel spring for the business end, grinding to shape as needed and drilling the punch to accept them.
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Author: Ryder
Date: 2008-06-17 17:56
tictactux,
thanks for that link,
not only will it help Firebird, but the other articles are worth looking at also.
____________________
Ryder Naymik
San Antonio, Texas
"We pracice the way we want to perform, that way when we perform it's just like we practiced"
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Author: Firebird
Date: 2008-06-17 23:50
Erm actually, I can do it if the spring is stuck in the post, but this is a spring stuck in the F#/C# key, which is not through the post, the one on the newer Buffets.
There's no room for the spring removal pliers.
Chan
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-06-18 03:01
Take a thick spring (like those use for saxophone) and hold it against the stub and lightly tap the back of the sax spring with a hammer. No injury, no mess and usually works in less than 10 taps for most jobs.
If it still doesn't come out, just be paitent.
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-06-18 05:24
A few weeks ago the exact same thing happened to a local player's Buffet. If I remember right spring removal pliers worked, though I think in that case the spring wasn't stuck unusually hard inside its holder.
But if spring removal pliers don't work, how did you try to tap it out with needles? How about trying some sort of punch instead of a needle? Or if a needle or needle spring, the best method I found is to hold it with what we call here patent pliers (though I don't think it's called the same anywhere else). It is pliers that you can choose the width and then they would grip whatever you want to hold very strong. You grip a very small part of a needle spring with only the as little as you need to stick out of the pliers, and then you tap the pliers. Also make sure you support the spring holder from the other side with a piece of wood or something similar (that would easily allow the spring to push into it but still support the holder). It is best when you have another person helping you.
Post Edited (2008-06-18 07:27)
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Author: Firebird
Date: 2008-06-21 00:03
I finally got it out! It required the help of my colleague help me hold the key (the lead block didn't help this time). First, I had to make sure that the broken part of the spring is flat against the holder by using a mallet and a metal rod. Thereafter, we took a saxaphone needle spring, cut it into half, and after 7-8 taps, voila! The remnant fell out.
Thank you skygardener for your advice, and all the others ho have tried to help in some wy or another.
Chan
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-06-23 01:31
Excellent advice, Clarnibass.
The pliers you mention are typically called "vice-grips".
A long THIN punch, eg sax spring, is far less effective than a short piece of the same thin material. (This is because of compression springiness along its length when you tap it, and also because of buckling effects.)
Of, course in this particular case, with the spring mounted on the key, One cannot just use a long THICK punch with a thin end.
Also, holding the object that the spring is mounted in really rigidly is just as
important as using an appropriate punch. In this case I would have held the key in a vice with rigid protective material over the jaws.
When possible (not in this case), the plier type tools are a better choice than any punch, because a punch involves impact, and whenever there is impact, we lose a lot of the control we would otherwise have over what is happening, eg the punch sliding off the spring stump, and penetrating the softer surrounding metal.
Post Edited (2008-06-23 15:19)
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Author: clarnibass
Date: 2008-06-23 02:43
I just had a disassembled Buffet here with the same type of F#/C# spring. It wasn't broken, but I just checked and it seemed like spring removal pliers would (just barely) work if it broke this way. If screwing the pin more, the edge of pliers doesn't hit the key. I'm not completely sure though because of the angle, but looks like it would have worked that way.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-06-23 12:04
Gordon NZ- "When possible (not in this case), the plier type tools are a better choice than any punch, because a punch involves impact, and whenever there is impact, we lose a lot of the control we would otherwise have over what is happening, eg the punch sliding off the spring stump, and penetrating the softer surrounding metal."
I don't know what you have seen others do, but when I use punches, I don't hit them hard enough to slip and damage. I just tap rather lightly and be patient and I have never had any damage. Also, I hold the tip of the punch onto the spring. If it really won't come out though, the post must be removed and we have to get a little heat into the process.
Maybe it's just that I have never had anything bad enough to warrant buying those pliers.
Post Edited (2008-06-23 13:59)
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-06-23 15:24
"Maybe it's just that I have never had anything bad enough to warrant buying those pliers."
I think that maybe right. The worst ones are small diameter, extremely tight, and broken off flush with the surface of the post, so after the end becomes burnished you can't even see where it is without a strong magnifier.
".. I just tap rather lightly and be patient and I have never had any damage..."
Sometimes that does nothing other than to smooth off the end of the spring so that the punch slips off it more easily, rather than budge the spring stump.
When I used to use punches, I would remove a post not for heating, but so that the punch could get in-line access when another post was in the way.
Do you find that heating frees the stump? The coefficients of thermal expansion are a little different, not that I'm sure it would make much difference for an item this small.
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Author: skygardener
Date: 2008-06-29 11:12
Gordon- "Do you find that heating frees the stump? The coefficients of thermal expansion are a little different, not that I'm sure it would make much difference for an item this small."
Well, I had been told that heat plus penetrating oil is what is needed for the really tough ones, but to be honest, I don't know if it really makes a difference or if it is just the persistence that eventually avails. However, if there is some physical muck that got in there and is part of the problem, then putting it in the fire for a few seconds may burn part of said muck and help free it up.
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Author: Gordon (NZ)
Date: 2008-06-29 15:54
My gut feeling is that heat would make no significant difference, because the metal parts are under high tension and compression, and minute dimensional change differences would do little to change that.
I guess if an 'assertive' type of Loctite, or solder, or superglue had been used, the heat would release it.
I think that any force needed to break the hold of other physical "muck" would be minute compared with other forces involved.
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