 The Clarinet BBoard
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Author: DrH2O
Date: 2008-06-16 17:12
Hello. I need some advice.
I have an itch to upgrade and after searching the archives and reading all the posts I could find, think I'm down to choosing between a Lyrique and an upper end Yamaha (SEV?) as a way to maximize the quality/cost factor. In an ideal world I gather I should play several of each side by side, preferably with my teacher along, before deciding which to get. This approach doesn't seem terribly feasible though given that Lyriques aren't stocked in music stores and pro-level Yamahas aren't generally stocked in local music stores either. I'm only a budding clarinetist, but am totally hooked (my family says I'm obsessed) and if/when I upgrade (my current clarinet has some quirks that I feel like I'm fighting) I want it to be something I'll have for the long haul.
I'd like hear thoughts on which clarinet you would recommend and how to decide between 2 that are hard to test side-by-side. As background info, I take private lessons - currently working out of Klose and about to start Rose 32 - and play (but still can't keep up with the really fast marches) in a local community band. I have a B-12 that I plan to keep for outdoor work. My current setup is E&S Master model, Vandoren M30, 3.5 Rue 56.
Thanks in advance - and yes I realize that I probably don't have to upgrade right away - but the stress of parenting a teenage son does strange things to your pysche.
Anne
Clarinet addict
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Author: Ed
Date: 2008-06-16 18:33
Given the choice between those two, I would go with the Yamaha. Yamaha has been around for a good while, makes great instruments, have a great reputation and would hold its value better down the road. Any Yamahas that I have had the opportunity to play have been fine instruments, well worth the money.
That said, there are many great clarinets out there from many makers, and you may wish to try a number of others as well.
Post Edited (2008-06-17 01:14)
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Author: Ed Palanker
Date: 2008-06-16 19:08
Hi DrH, I don’t know why you’re limiting your search to those two only. I have no experience with the Lyrique so I can’t speak to those. If it weren’t for the clarinet board I would not even know of the brand. My suggestion is to go to a shop that stocks a lot of different instruments and try out as many of the pro brands as possible. You said it’s between the Lyrique and the top Yamaha model so your looking at top end. Two years ago I took a student to try Buffets and on a lark I tried some Selmer’s and fell in love with one and bought it, after playing R13s all my life, I still play my R13 A. You have to try as many as possible of each brand once you know what brand and model you like best. Many large stores will send you several, with a deposit of course to try, but you should locate a place that has a large selection, make an appointment, and play your heart away all day. Then you can ask about taking one or more on approval to have your teacher sign in. You have to consider tone, feel, intonation and value. Good luck, ESP
www.peabody.jhu.edu/457 (Listen to a little Mozart, on my A- R13)
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Author: Dan Oberlin ★2017
Date: 2008-06-16 19:46
I left Buffet for a Yamaha SEV many years ago and, sometime later, changed from
the SEV to a Yamaha CSG. Curious about the Lyrique, I tried one a few years ago. After the first 30 minutes with the Lyrique I never played the CSG again. So I'm firmly in the Lyrique camp. Some things to consider: the Lyriques are very consistent. The two B flats I own and two others (belonging to friends) which I've tried play very much alike. The same cannot be said for Yamahas, and consistency must be a plus if you cannot try a wide selection of instruments. Also, the Lyrique is significantly less expensive and is beautifully set up out of the box.
D.O.
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Author: Brenda Siewert
Date: 2008-06-16 20:39
It's absolutely impossible to make an intelligent choice without having them
side by side. See if you can get Tom Ridenour to send you one on approval and get a Yamaha from wwbw.com or some other dealer that allows 30 to 45 days trial.
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Author: Ken Shaw ★2017
Date: 2008-06-16 21:08
Clarinets vary tremendousy from sample to sample, within particular models. There are excellent Yamahas and Lyriques, and also some you woudn't want to own.
You can't tell without paying them, and by far the best way is to have, say, 12 together and choose the best. As I've written before, you have to go through things in the right order.
(1) INTONATION. This is by far more important than everything else
combined. A clarinet that plays out of tune is useless, no matter how fine its other characteristics. While intonation is of course affected by mouthpieces and reeds, and slight errors can be adjusted, the intonation of an instrument has to be very nearly perfect to begin with. Bring an electronic tuner and a friend to watch it, so you won't make adjustments to accommodate flaws in the instrument. Be ruthless. If you have a dozen new clarinets in front of you, you can probably eliminate half of them on this criterion alone.
(2) EVENNESS OF SCALE. Each note must be just as loud and have the same color as the ones on either side of it. You must be able to play without notes popping out or being dull. Test by slowly playing small segments of a chromatic scale -- 4 or 5 notes at a time. Again, after-market tweaks can make small improvements, but it has to be right at the outset.
(3) QUICK RESPONSE. The instrument should make wide slurs without blips, begin any note cleanly and move from note to note quickly and seamlessly.
(4) OTHER QUALITIES. Only when you eliminate instruments that don't have the first three qualities can you go on to the rest. In no particular order, I think of beauty of tone, flexibility of tone (i.e., the ability to make many good tones), a comfortable amount of resistance and physical ergonomics.
(5) FINAL DECISION. Finally, you depend on gestalt -- how well the
instrument accommodates to how you play -- how much it lets you find new ways to play. An instrument can have every quality described above and still not reach out and embrace you. You need to feel good when you play it. It needs to feel like an extension of your body and breath.
Ken Shaw
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Author: rtmyth
Date: 2008-06-17 15:56
Ken Shaw said it all,and very clearly. Follow his advise and you will not be disappointed.
richard smith
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Author: DrH2O
Date: 2008-06-17 16:40
Thank you all for your advice. I'll be patient and try to get some instruments to try. Ken, thank you for the detailed info on priorities when trying instruments out - that wil be a big help! The Lyrique in more in my financial ballpark, but I hate to make a choice based on price alone. Convincing my husband that the difference might be worth $1000 is another story. Time to go hunt for spare change.
Cheers,
Anne
Clarinet addict
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Author: DavidBlumberg
Date: 2008-06-17 17:11
Remember though that although the Lyrique is a lot less, don't be biased against it for that reason too - it's not a "cheap" clarinet in acoustical design terms. So it may be the best value for the dollar in a lot of ways besides just that it's not very much $.
I have to try one myself.... I got soured on hard rubber clarinets the last one I tried, but it wasn't that model.
There's a certain sound that I like, and I couldn't begin to get it with the last hard rubber clarinet that I tried. Maybe it was me, but I kinda doubt it.
http://www.SkypeClarinetLessons.com
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-06-17 19:39
As to Mr. Blumbergs post, I might add one thing that really changes the equation, one that I think is pertinent: There is a difference between the response of hard rubber and of wood.
Until one respects that difference, (and it is one of response, not better or worse) it is difficult to choose between them.
The Lyrique is much better in tune that any Buffet I have ever played, and that is right from the box, actually better than any Selmer or Leblanc as well, except for maybe the Opus, nothwithstanding Mr Shaws excellent criteria.
For a person who has played wood for many many years, well the response is not the same with hard rubber.It may be better, and it does improve until it becomes very sweet indeed. Or, it may not, but the tuning remains as Mr Shaw says, paramount.
Sherman Friedland
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Author: S. Friedland
Date: 2008-06-18 02:20
David: Here is the thing. It doesn't seem strange, just strained, if you can believe it. The rubber, after a time is much more a lovely response than that of wood. It is true that it only takes a few minutes before the wood groove is back, though not better. The change is a very nice experience, and I guess the difference is in the tuning. The Bb is in tune, the throat not sharp, the low E correct and the high register is not flat.....except for the altissima F#, which I hear or play flat. But as you know, there are many ways to kill that cat.
Sherman Friedland
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Author: bmcgar ★2017
Date: 2008-06-18 03:46
I'd go for the Lyrique. It's a nice horn, as many have attested to here (I've owned one and played four or five more). My reason for suggesting the Lyrique, however, isn't based on whether it's as good or better than another instrument, it's based on one big thing that you mention: You are a "new clarinet addict."
As you get more experience, it's very likely that you will change not only the way you play, but what you want out of an instrument: sound, keywork, and so forth (not to mention that you're likely to change reeds and mouthpieces).
Given that, wouldn't it be more reasonable to spend much less money, but on an instrument that is basically a really nice horn, but for 1/3 the cost of a pro-level Yamaha, Buffet, Selmer, Leblanc, etc.?
Then, when you reach a level at which you're a fairly experienced player with stable playing habits and developed skills, and you know better how you want to sound and have a better idea of what specifically you want from an instrument, you can switch to the high priced spread, if you want to.
B.
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